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Everything about this just seems to scream of wholesomeness, and wholesomeness is boring as hell.
by tomc1985 5y ago
Everything about this just seems to scream of wholesomeness, and wholesomeness is boring as hell.
- nynx 5y agoWholesomeness does often end up being boring, but hopepunk is almost the antithesis of wholesome. It's about how working hard, getting your hands dirty, and making hard decisions can lead to a better world.
- tomc1985 5y agoHow is that the 'antithesis' of wholesome? It sounds more like the plotline of a Sunday sermon, or a Disney movie Or is this another situation where the original word is stolen from its vibe and repurposed solely for its meaning?
- nynx 5y agoOkay, maybe not antithesis, but I think of wholesome stories as being full of easy choices where no one dies at the end. From the books I've read that I'd say fit into hopepunk, they're not like that at all. Good people die at the end sometimes.
- tomc1985 5y agoI think you're mistaking feelgood for wholesome. Wholesomeness instills people with positivity and good morals, oftentimes through good but difficult choices.
- nynx 5y agoI might be. I think the term wholesome has been somewhat redefined to mean feelgood colloquially though. Could you explain why wholesome stories are boring to you?
- tomc1985 5y agoBecause it has no contrast, and it's always the same outcomes over and over again. Goodness triumphs. The moral wins. The same shit drilled into our heads as kids in school and church, writ large. Good drama has badness and evil, and sometimes they come out ahead despite the protagonist's moral superiority. That and utopian life lacks drama by definition.
- Jensson 5y agoYou are talking about the ancient definition of comedy, you just don't like comedies and want more tragedies. Wholesome does not just mean that the good people wins at the end, it means that there are no bad people to begin with. If there is a problem it isn't caused by some evil guy, it could be that a tractor broke down or that a harvest failed and people has to work hard to solve it, evil people aren't wholesome so stories containing them aren't wholesome stories.
- Jensson 5y agoAnimal Crossing is wholesome and very popular. Not everyone might like it, but wholesome stuff seems like a big and underserved market. I think the biggest problem with wholesome stuff is that creators find it boring to create wholesome stuff, not that consumers don't like it. Edit: Also, even Disney movies tend to have a lot of drama etc to take away from the wholesome stuff, so they aren't really wholesome. They have many wholesome parts, but they aren't fully wholesome, there is a lot of evil in Disney worlds that needs to be battled and won against, or people die or get diseases or get enslaved, that isn't wholesome at all. So even there creators need to create non-wholesome stuff leaks through. Might still be too wholesome for you, but it still isn't really wholesome.
- micromacrofoot 5y agohell in most Disney movies the kid has dead parents
- tomc1985 5y agoAnimal Crossing seems like a glorified work simulator, which if anything speaks to the weaponization of feelgood and wholesomeness to get people to grind an objective
- micromacrofoot 5y agoI used to think this way, but wholesomeness is actually very difficult… especially without denial, and in the face of cynicism