4 ms·

how is this statement remotely true? Now is government help better than min wage? housing is still unaffordable and inflation is still 5%. There is no wealth cr

how is this statement remotely true? Now is government help better than min wage? housing is still unaffordable and inflation is still 5%. There is no wealth creation on government assistance. In fact, there is wealth destruction.

elhudy 5y ago
I’m not saying that people being on government help is better for the economy than people working at minimum wage. I’m saying that maybe employment rates aren’t as relevant of a measure as they once were, because employment at min wage isn’t as useful to the individual as it was 10, 20 years ago.
- refurb 5y ago
  I suggest you look at the employment data breakdown. The DOL goes into a lot of detail about what jobs are created, at what pay, etc.
  - elhudy 5y ago
    What do you believe the data will say about my statement? Will the data disprove it?
    - refurb 5y ago
      The data will show that policy makers don't just look at the unemployment rate, they look at the underlying drivers. And it will also show very few people actually make minimum wage and most of them are young teenagers.
      - elhudy 5y ago
        I think you’re giving policy makers too much credit by saying they look at the data, but that’s an aside :). I’m not sure we even have to look at the data ourselves to find my statement true, if we accept the following as facts: 1) Wages have largely remained stagnant in the past 10 years 2) Inflation has increased in the past 10 years 3) Housing and healthcare costs have increased in the past 10 years Thus, even if employment is exactly as it was ten years ago, it doesn’t seem meaningful in understanding economic health.
        refurb 5y ago
        You don't think policy makers look at the data? Have you looked at the data?
        elhudy 5y ago
        It was tongue in cheek
        sokoloff 5y ago
        Real wages* have been roughly flat for quite some time. That statement covers 1 and 2 above, yet people often include both as if the second one represented a new problem in light of the first. You’ve included a third statement which restates/clarifies a portion of #2. All of those statements are true, provided you’re talking about real wages, but then those are closer to 1.5 independent facts than 3.0. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/?amp=1 https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us...
        elhudy 5y ago
        You just cited a source from 2018. Are real wages still flat, right now in 2021, or are they down? Do you think wages hiked 6.2% with inflation over the past few months? BLS says real wages at -1.2% over the last year, and thats probably conservative. Combined with my third point it sounds a bit scary dont you think? https://www.bls.gov/news.release/realer.nr0.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/realer.nr0.htm I could easily combine points 1 and 2 to your point but imo it makes more sense to separate because inflation and how we measure it is at the heart of the issue.
        sokoloff 5y ago
        To separate them in a logical fashion, you need to talk about nominal wages in #1 which have experienced growth roughly in line with inflation. Then, introducing nominal inflation in #2 builds on #1. I cited a 2018 study because the time period in question was largely covered by it. I’m happy to review a 2021 study if you cite one.
pyaccount 5y ago
If you don’t need to be in a place with jobs, you can surely find a cheap place to stay. For a lot of Americans, it means they can find a free place to stay, like with relatives.

elhudy 5y ago

I’m not saying that people being on government help is better for the economy than people working at minimum wage. I’m saying that maybe employment rates aren’t as relevant of a measure as they once were, because employment at min wage isn’t as useful to the individual as it was 10, 20 years ago.

refurb 5y ago
I suggest you look at the employment data breakdown. The DOL goes into a lot of detail about what jobs are created, at what pay, etc.
- elhudy 5y ago
  What do you believe the data will say about my statement? Will the data disprove it?
  - refurb 5y ago
    The data will show that policy makers don't just look at the unemployment rate, they look at the underlying drivers. And it will also show very few people actually make minimum wage and most of them are young teenagers.
    - elhudy 5y ago
      I think you’re giving policy makers too much credit by saying they look at the data, but that’s an aside :). I’m not sure we even have to look at the data ourselves to find my statement true, if we accept the following as facts: 1) Wages have largely remained stagnant in the past 10 years 2) Inflation has increased in the past 10 years 3) Housing and healthcare costs have increased in the past 10 years Thus, even if employment is exactly as it was ten years ago, it doesn’t seem meaningful in understanding economic health.
      - refurb 5y ago
        You don't think policy makers look at the data? Have you looked at the data?
        elhudy 5y ago
        It was tongue in cheek
      - sokoloff 5y ago
        Real wages* have been roughly flat for quite some time. That statement covers 1 and 2 above, yet people often include both as if the second one represented a new problem in light of the first. You’ve included a third statement which restates/clarifies a portion of #2. All of those statements are true, provided you’re talking about real wages, but then those are closer to 1.5 independent facts than 3.0. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/?amp=1 https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us...
        elhudy 5y ago
        You just cited a source from 2018. Are real wages still flat, right now in 2021, or are they down? Do you think wages hiked 6.2% with inflation over the past few months? BLS says real wages at -1.2% over the last year, and thats probably conservative. Combined with my third point it sounds a bit scary dont you think? https://www.bls.gov/news.release/realer.nr0.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/realer.nr0.htm I could easily combine points 1 and 2 to your point but imo it makes more sense to separate because inflation and how we measure it is at the heart of the issue.
        sokoloff 5y ago
        To separate them in a logical fashion, you need to talk about nominal wages in #1 which have experienced growth roughly in line with inflation. Then, introducing nominal inflation in #2 builds on #1. I cited a 2018 study because the time period in question was largely covered by it. I’m happy to review a 2021 study if you cite one.

pyaccount 5y ago

If you don’t need to be in a place with jobs, you can surely find a cheap place to stay. For a lot of Americans, it means they can find a free place to stay, like with relatives.