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It's notoriously difficult to study because you can't tell some 6-year old that they should become a gamer as that is what your random number generator wants th

It's notoriously difficult to study because you can't tell some 6-year old that they should become a gamer as that is what your random number generator wants them to do. But, it's also difficult to study because the effect size, whatever it direction may be, is rather small. (nobody ever agreed to a double-blind experiment proving that bullets kill, just as a point of comparison). From what I read back when it interested me, it seems suggestive of a mild negative effect. But it's hard to say because of the absolutely overwhelming effect of in the other direction: there is absolutely no doubt that eight hours or more of weekly gaming is evidence of depression for age groups 16 and up. (valid for PC/console only. Gaming on mobile phones is often more indicative of using public transport than anything else).

bastardoperator 5y ago
What evidence? It would be impossible to quantify this, but I'd love to see the data that makes this assertion. I'm arguing that anything less than 8 hours a week means you're not playing enough or you don't enjoy gaming as much as others might.
fsloth 5y ago
"There is absolutely no doubt that eight hours or more of weekly gaming is evidence of depression for age groups 16 and up." But is it a form of self medication or pathology? Being over 16 and gaming too much is an obvious probable pathology, but I would not see pathology as the only interpretation. I had a pretty dark time in my life during which Kerbal Space Program may well have saved my life (by taking my mind completely off the bad stuff and giving a nice boost of the positive brain transmitters).
- AussieWog93 5y ago
  There are definitely people who escape into video games to avoid dealing with problems in the real world. Perhaps this is a good thing in the short term (your experience definitely seems to suggest this!), but anecdotally many of the long-term, heavy games-players I know (mid-20s) seem to be taking on less responsibility, investing less into themselves, their future and the people around them, and failing to live up to their potential in a noticeable way. Very similar to weed smokers, thinking about it.
- swader999 5y ago
  The dopamine profile of doing this can't be great.
mbg721 5y ago
> there is absolutely no doubt that eight hours or more of weekly gaming is evidence of depression for age groups 16 and up. Surely it depends on the game and the context; that would encompass just about anyone who plays Civilization.
boomlinde 5y ago
> there is absolutely no doubt that eight hours or more of weekly gaming is evidence of depression for age groups 16 and up. From whom?
3520 5y ago
> there is absolutely no doubt that eight hours or more of weekly gaming is evidence of depression for age groups 16 and up. Since you're putting it forth as an absolute truth, surely you'd have no problem providing us all with a citation; would you be so kind?
kubb 5y ago
> there is absolutely no doubt that eight hours or more of weekly gaming is evidence of depression for age groups 16 and up I doubt that. Many critically acclaimed single player games take from 40 up to 120 hours to complete, so 8 hours a week puts you on track to play through one game in a month.
- zwkrt 5y ago
  From an outsiders perspective that seems really reasonable? If I put 8 hours of reading per week in, then I would probably finish 1-2 books per month. How many games should one be finishing in a month?
  - kubb 5y ago
    It's individual and also depends on the game (some are much shorter like 8 hours, some can absorb 100s of hours, some games don't have a clear "end"), but one per 1-2 months with a break in between gives you high quality entertainment and it's an enriching experience. I'd say that's a typical pace for an adult gamer with a job. Books are a good analogy for the single player games with a definite ending. The satisfaction I get from completing them is similar (but not exactly the same).
belorn 5y ago
I tried to find a link on pubmed about depression and gaming. "Depressive symptoms and suicidal are associated to screen time induced poor sleep, digital device night use, and mobile phone dependency." (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29499467/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29499467/) This other study (http://irep.ntu.ac.uk/id/eprint/27290/7/27290_Kuss.pdf http://irep.ntu.ac.uk/id/eprint/27290/7/27290_Kuss.pdf) seems to show some association between depression and addictive use of video games (The criteria for addiction is not about length but rather about how the behavior is effecting the person life). It should be noted however that social media has a slightly higher association with depression. I doubt there is evidence that eight hours or more of weekly gaming would be any kind of evidence of depression for age groups 16 and up. If a person, of any age group, uses games or social media to the point where it prevents them from function in society and they don't sleep, then that is likely associated with risk of depression. Not 100%, but maybe with a pearson correlation coefficient of r=0.25. Now I should really stop writing on HN and get some sleep before people called me depressed.
girvo 5y ago
> there is absolutely no doubt that eight hours or more of weekly gaming is evidence of depression for age groups 16 and up Based on what? Is there good evidence for this, or is this anecdotal? I think that's a far more complex statement that it appears on the surface, and I don't think I agree with the strong "no doubt" part of it. I'm willing to be convinced otherwise though.

bastardoperator 5y ago

What evidence? It would be impossible to quantify this, but I'd love to see the data that makes this assertion. I'm arguing that anything less than 8 hours a week means you're not playing enough or you don't enjoy gaming as much as others might.

fsloth 5y ago

"There is absolutely no doubt that eight hours or more of weekly gaming is evidence of depression for age groups 16 and up." But is it a form of self medication or pathology? Being over 16 and gaming too much is an obvious probable pathology, but I would not see pathology as the only interpretation. I had a pretty dark time in my life during which Kerbal Space Program may well have saved my life (by taking my mind completely off the bad stuff and giving a nice boost of the positive brain transmitters).

AussieWog93 5y ago
There are definitely people who escape into video games to avoid dealing with problems in the real world. Perhaps this is a good thing in the short term (your experience definitely seems to suggest this!), but anecdotally many of the long-term, heavy games-players I know (mid-20s) seem to be taking on less responsibility, investing less into themselves, their future and the people around them, and failing to live up to their potential in a noticeable way. Very similar to weed smokers, thinking about it.
swader999 5y ago
The dopamine profile of doing this can't be great.

mbg721 5y ago

> there is absolutely no doubt that eight hours or more of weekly gaming is evidence of depression for age groups 16 and up. Surely it depends on the game and the context; that would encompass just about anyone who plays Civilization.

boomlinde 5y ago

> there is absolutely no doubt that eight hours or more of weekly gaming is evidence of depression for age groups 16 and up. From whom?

3520 5y ago

> there is absolutely no doubt that eight hours or more of weekly gaming is evidence of depression for age groups 16 and up. Since you're putting it forth as an absolute truth, surely you'd have no problem providing us all with a citation; would you be so kind?

kubb 5y ago

> there is absolutely no doubt that eight hours or more of weekly gaming is evidence of depression for age groups 16 and up I doubt that. Many critically acclaimed single player games take from 40 up to 120 hours to complete, so 8 hours a week puts you on track to play through one game in a month.

zwkrt 5y ago
From an outsiders perspective that seems really reasonable? If I put 8 hours of reading per week in, then I would probably finish 1-2 books per month. How many games should one be finishing in a month?
- kubb 5y ago
  It's individual and also depends on the game (some are much shorter like 8 hours, some can absorb 100s of hours, some games don't have a clear "end"), but one per 1-2 months with a break in between gives you high quality entertainment and it's an enriching experience. I'd say that's a typical pace for an adult gamer with a job. Books are a good analogy for the single player games with a definite ending. The satisfaction I get from completing them is similar (but not exactly the same).

belorn 5y ago

I tried to find a link on pubmed about depression and gaming. "Depressive symptoms and suicidal are associated to screen time induced poor sleep, digital device night use, and mobile phone dependency." (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29499467/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29499467/) This other study (http://irep.ntu.ac.uk/id/eprint/27290/7/27290_Kuss.pdf http://irep.ntu.ac.uk/id/eprint/27290/7/27290_Kuss.pdf) seems to show some association between depression and addictive use of video games (The criteria for addiction is not about length but rather about how the behavior is effecting the person life). It should be noted however that social media has a slightly higher association with depression. I doubt there is evidence that eight hours or more of weekly gaming would be any kind of evidence of depression for age groups 16 and up. If a person, of any age group, uses games or social media to the point where it prevents them from function in society and they don't sleep, then that is likely associated with risk of depression. Not 100%, but maybe with a pearson correlation coefficient of r=0.25. Now I should really stop writing on HN and get some sleep before people called me depressed.

girvo 5y ago

> there is absolutely no doubt that eight hours or more of weekly gaming is evidence of depression for age groups 16 and up Based on what? Is there good evidence for this, or is this anecdotal? I think that's a far more complex statement that it appears on the surface, and I don't think I agree with the strong "no doubt" part of it. I'm willing to be convinced otherwise though.