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Part of it is an educational component. People think of EVs the same way they think of ICE. They essentially ask “how long does it take to fill up my tank” beca

Part of it is an educational component. People think of EVs the same way they think of ICE. They essentially ask “how long does it take to fill up my tank” because that’s what they do with gas. But what you would do for long road trips is fill up enough to complete the next leg of your trip. EVs charge faster the lower the battery charge is. There’s no reason why you should need to charge for 60 minutes during a road trip, unless you’re in an area where the charging network is still very underdeveloped (which is still too many places obviously).

greedo 5y ago
I hear this all the time yet I think it's misguided. Trying to educate users that they're "holding it wrong" instead of satisfying expectations is a fundamental mistake. For example, I make several trips each year to visit family out of state. This is in the Midwest US, where winters are no fun, and dramatically affect range for an EV. The route is roughly 400 miles, and takes about 5/12 hours. According to the route planner in my friends Model Y, I would need to make 3 stops and I'd arrive at the inlaws house with 25% charge. I'd have to charge overnight there (they won't ever have a fast charger), and that might get me to 35%, depending on the temperature. On the way home, since I'm not starting at 100% capacity, I would have to make 4 stops. This makes the trip outbound roughly 7 hours, and the trip home almost 8. Now compare this to an ICE. We make one stop, for roughly 5 minutes to refill gas and use the bathroom. Both legs of the trip are about 6 hours tops.
- wbsss4412 5y ago
  “You’re holding it wrong” was a design flaw, the fact that batteries charge faster depending on the state of the battery pack is just physics. Unless we get to a point where charging is faster by using a linear charge rate, what I said is always going to be true. As per what your friends Tesla says, it’s obviously optimizing for the wrong thing, but that’s because it doesn’t have the correct information. It’s still going to be based on the owner’s judgement to actually make sure to operate their vehicle correctly. Imagine a world where everyone drove EVs and we were suddenly switching to gas cars with manual transmissions (because automatics aren’t invented yet) learning to drive stick is not going to be a pleasant experience for more people. The fact of the matter is that there are going to be things to learn when adopting a new technology. (Plenty of people are and were completely baffled by how to use a smartphone at first too)
  - greedo 5y ago
    Why do you think the route planner on the Tesla doesn't have the correct information? It knows the route, the expected electricity consumption, the location of superchargers, and the expected weather. It also has tons of information to predict how the car and battery would perform in that weather, and possibly on that exact route.
    - wbsss4412 5y ago
      It doesn’t know you’re planning to leave the next day and go back. You weren’t complaining about how it gets you there, you were complaining that it wouldn’t have enough charge to get you back. If it knew you needed to go back the next day after slow charging overnight, it would be able to optimize for that, but clearly it doesn’t.
      - greedo 5y ago
        Oh I'm most definitely complaining about how it gets me there. Having to take three stops on such a short trip, adding extra time to the trip is definitely something I wouldn't enjoy, no matter how great EV life is in the city. And since I make this trip 3-6 times per year, the frustration I would experience in this scenario makes it a non-starter.
        wbsss4412 5y ago
        Ah see I’d make that trade if its only maybe 12 hours a year difference. The benefits of my EV overweigh that downside. I understand that isn’t the case for everyone though.
  - greedo 5y ago
    Oh, and side note about smartphones; this is why the iPhone was so successful. You didn't need to be a geek familiar with odd Nokia or WinCE stuff to use it.
    - wbsss4412 5y ago
- paul7986 5y ago
  Exactly real life experience data vs. marketing/fan enthusiasts to Telsa stockholder speak which the majority im guessing are people who rarely drive ... just out of the city to visit family and friends here and there less then 100 to 200 miles away. EVs are perfect for those city dwellers those living close to cities and those who aren't roadtrippers. Overall EVs are not prime time ready for non city folk who want to just get in there car and go without thought vs. map out a route for charging stations and wait 15 to 60 minutes to fill based on how far the next one is and other logistics. GOing to take awhile for the infrastructure to match gas cars/stations, as well as the technology (fast charging).
  - wbsss4412 5y ago
    I wouldn’t recommend EVs yet to people outside of major cities (in the US anyways), but that’s also only a small fraction of people. I’m also not a Tesla stock holder, nor am I a Tesla owner, nor do I have any interest in owning a Tesla. I’m just someone who owns an EV and is quite happy with it, and feel like it’s world explaining what it’s like from first hand experience myself.
    - paul7986 5y ago
      Sure and sounds like you live close or live in a city. I'm 35 miles north of Baltimore right over the MD/PA line (closest to York PA) and work from home. I enjoy frequent road trips to New England and to the Mid-West so I would add those who are similar roadtrippers who just want to get out and go without thought nor have to wait 15 to possibly 60 minutes to charge the car EVs aren't ready for them either.
      - wbsss4412 5y ago
        I do indeed live in/near a city, as do most people. Obviously gas cars are better for road tripping, I never said otherwise. If you road trip every weekend then you’re going to be frustrated with an EV. But I’ll reiterate that it is absolutely possible to road trip in an EV if you want or need to, and there is almost no reason why you should be sitting there charging it for 60 minutes assuming you are within range of other fast chargers further in your route. If you spend most of your time driving around town and only road trip once every few months, the extra time you spend charging in the occasional road trip is generally not as big of a deal as people assume. Is it something that I personally like? Obviously it would be great if it were as fast as a gas car. But class cars have trade offs too. I haven’t had to make a separate trip to fuel my car since the last time I went on a road trip!

greedo 5y ago

I hear this all the time yet I think it's misguided. Trying to educate users that they're "holding it wrong" instead of satisfying expectations is a fundamental mistake. For example, I make several trips each year to visit family out of state. This is in the Midwest US, where winters are no fun, and dramatically affect range for an EV. The route is roughly 400 miles, and takes about 5/12 hours. According to the route planner in my friends Model Y, I would need to make 3 stops and I'd arrive at the inlaws house with 25% charge. I'd have to charge overnight there (they won't ever have a fast charger), and that might get me to 35%, depending on the temperature. On the way home, since I'm not starting at 100% capacity, I would have to make 4 stops. This makes the trip outbound roughly 7 hours, and the trip home almost 8. Now compare this to an ICE. We make one stop, for roughly 5 minutes to refill gas and use the bathroom. Both legs of the trip are about 6 hours tops.

wbsss4412 5y ago
“You’re holding it wrong” was a design flaw, the fact that batteries charge faster depending on the state of the battery pack is just physics. Unless we get to a point where charging is faster by using a linear charge rate, what I said is always going to be true. As per what your friends Tesla says, it’s obviously optimizing for the wrong thing, but that’s because it doesn’t have the correct information. It’s still going to be based on the owner’s judgement to actually make sure to operate their vehicle correctly. Imagine a world where everyone drove EVs and we were suddenly switching to gas cars with manual transmissions (because automatics aren’t invented yet) learning to drive stick is not going to be a pleasant experience for more people. The fact of the matter is that there are going to be things to learn when adopting a new technology. (Plenty of people are and were completely baffled by how to use a smartphone at first too)
- greedo 5y ago
  Why do you think the route planner on the Tesla doesn't have the correct information? It knows the route, the expected electricity consumption, the location of superchargers, and the expected weather. It also has tons of information to predict how the car and battery would perform in that weather, and possibly on that exact route.
  - wbsss4412 5y ago
    It doesn’t know you’re planning to leave the next day and go back. You weren’t complaining about how it gets you there, you were complaining that it wouldn’t have enough charge to get you back. If it knew you needed to go back the next day after slow charging overnight, it would be able to optimize for that, but clearly it doesn’t.
    - greedo 5y ago
      Oh I'm most definitely complaining about how it gets me there. Having to take three stops on such a short trip, adding extra time to the trip is definitely something I wouldn't enjoy, no matter how great EV life is in the city. And since I make this trip 3-6 times per year, the frustration I would experience in this scenario makes it a non-starter.
      - wbsss4412 5y ago
        Ah see I’d make that trade if its only maybe 12 hours a year difference. The benefits of my EV overweigh that downside. I understand that isn’t the case for everyone though.
- greedo 5y ago
  Oh, and side note about smartphones; this is why the iPhone was so successful. You didn't need to be a geek familiar with odd Nokia or WinCE stuff to use it.
  - wbsss4412 5y ago
paul7986 5y ago
Exactly real life experience data vs. marketing/fan enthusiasts to Telsa stockholder speak which the majority im guessing are people who rarely drive ... just out of the city to visit family and friends here and there less then 100 to 200 miles away. EVs are perfect for those city dwellers those living close to cities and those who aren't roadtrippers. Overall EVs are not prime time ready for non city folk who want to just get in there car and go without thought vs. map out a route for charging stations and wait 15 to 60 minutes to fill based on how far the next one is and other logistics. GOing to take awhile for the infrastructure to match gas cars/stations, as well as the technology (fast charging).
- wbsss4412 5y ago
  I wouldn’t recommend EVs yet to people outside of major cities (in the US anyways), but that’s also only a small fraction of people. I’m also not a Tesla stock holder, nor am I a Tesla owner, nor do I have any interest in owning a Tesla. I’m just someone who owns an EV and is quite happy with it, and feel like it’s world explaining what it’s like from first hand experience myself.
  - paul7986 5y ago
    Sure and sounds like you live close or live in a city. I'm 35 miles north of Baltimore right over the MD/PA line (closest to York PA) and work from home. I enjoy frequent road trips to New England and to the Mid-West so I would add those who are similar roadtrippers who just want to get out and go without thought nor have to wait 15 to possibly 60 minutes to charge the car EVs aren't ready for them either.
    - wbsss4412 5y ago
      I do indeed live in/near a city, as do most people. Obviously gas cars are better for road tripping, I never said otherwise. If you road trip every weekend then you’re going to be frustrated with an EV. But I’ll reiterate that it is absolutely possible to road trip in an EV if you want or need to, and there is almost no reason why you should be sitting there charging it for 60 minutes assuming you are within range of other fast chargers further in your route. If you spend most of your time driving around town and only road trip once every few months, the extra time you spend charging in the occasional road trip is generally not as big of a deal as people assume. Is it something that I personally like? Obviously it would be great if it were as fast as a gas car. But class cars have trade offs too. I haven’t had to make a separate trip to fuel my car since the last time I went on a road trip!