5 ms·

And personally for me the UX of filling my gas tank (done in two or three minutes) vs. having to wait 15 to 60 minutes on one of my many tri-state weekend road

And personally for me the UX of filling my gas tank (done in two or three minutes) vs. having to wait 15 to 60 minutes on one of my many tri-state weekend road trips is why I'm not excited yet to buy an EV. So I'm gonna pay tons of more money for an EV yet not being offered the same level convenience. Thus eagerly awaiting the day where the same UX is offered.

t0mas88 5y ago
It's being solved from both ends, on one side fast-charging is getting faster and on the other end the range is increasing. If the range is 600+ miles, you probably wouldn't mind a 30 minutes charging time because you want to stop to eat anyway. On the other hand fast charging still has issues with capacity. If several cars want to fast-charge at the same time, there either aren't enough spots or when there are the charging rate is decreased because there isn't enough power available to fast-charge many cars. And this is with a minority of cars being electric, if everyone switches to EVs this problem becomes much bigger. There is a lot of work to do on the grid and maybe some form of local storage of energy at larger highway charging stops.
- fouc 5y ago
  Yeah good point about higher range reducing the pressure on fast charging.
- protomyth 5y ago
  If the range is 600+ miles The other problem is that range estimates do not take into account cold weather and no garage. I bought a hybrid and I probably should have bought an ICE that got in the 40mpg instead of the 55mpg hybrid since winter is very bad on batteries.
wbsss4412 5y ago
Part of it is an educational component. People think of EVs the same way they think of ICE. They essentially ask “how long does it take to fill up my tank” because that’s what they do with gas. But what you would do for long road trips is fill up enough to complete the next leg of your trip. EVs charge faster the lower the battery charge is. There’s no reason why you should need to charge for 60 minutes during a road trip, unless you’re in an area where the charging network is still very underdeveloped (which is still too many places obviously).
- greedo 5y ago
  I hear this all the time yet I think it's misguided. Trying to educate users that they're "holding it wrong" instead of satisfying expectations is a fundamental mistake. For example, I make several trips each year to visit family out of state. This is in the Midwest US, where winters are no fun, and dramatically affect range for an EV. The route is roughly 400 miles, and takes about 5/12 hours. According to the route planner in my friends Model Y, I would need to make 3 stops and I'd arrive at the inlaws house with 25% charge. I'd have to charge overnight there (they won't ever have a fast charger), and that might get me to 35%, depending on the temperature. On the way home, since I'm not starting at 100% capacity, I would have to make 4 stops. This makes the trip outbound roughly 7 hours, and the trip home almost 8. Now compare this to an ICE. We make one stop, for roughly 5 minutes to refill gas and use the bathroom. Both legs of the trip are about 6 hours tops.
  - wbsss4412 5y ago
    “You’re holding it wrong” was a design flaw, the fact that batteries charge faster depending on the state of the battery pack is just physics. Unless we get to a point where charging is faster by using a linear charge rate, what I said is always going to be true. As per what your friends Tesla says, it’s obviously optimizing for the wrong thing, but that’s because it doesn’t have the correct information. It’s still going to be based on the owner’s judgement to actually make sure to operate their vehicle correctly. Imagine a world where everyone drove EVs and we were suddenly switching to gas cars with manual transmissions (because automatics aren’t invented yet) learning to drive stick is not going to be a pleasant experience for more people. The fact of the matter is that there are going to be things to learn when adopting a new technology. (Plenty of people are and were completely baffled by how to use a smartphone at first too)
    - greedo 5y ago
      Why do you think the route planner on the Tesla doesn't have the correct information? It knows the route, the expected electricity consumption, the location of superchargers, and the expected weather. It also has tons of information to predict how the car and battery would perform in that weather, and possibly on that exact route.

t0mas88 5y ago

It's being solved from both ends, on one side fast-charging is getting faster and on the other end the range is increasing. If the range is 600+ miles, you probably wouldn't mind a 30 minutes charging time because you want to stop to eat anyway. On the other hand fast charging still has issues with capacity. If several cars want to fast-charge at the same time, there either aren't enough spots or when there are the charging rate is decreased because there isn't enough power available to fast-charge many cars. And this is with a minority of cars being electric, if everyone switches to EVs this problem becomes much bigger. There is a lot of work to do on the grid and maybe some form of local storage of energy at larger highway charging stops.

fouc 5y ago
Yeah good point about higher range reducing the pressure on fast charging.
protomyth 5y ago
If the range is 600+ miles The other problem is that range estimates do not take into account cold weather and no garage. I bought a hybrid and I probably should have bought an ICE that got in the 40mpg instead of the 55mpg hybrid since winter is very bad on batteries.

wbsss4412 5y ago

Part of it is an educational component. People think of EVs the same way they think of ICE. They essentially ask “how long does it take to fill up my tank” because that’s what they do with gas. But what you would do for long road trips is fill up enough to complete the next leg of your trip. EVs charge faster the lower the battery charge is. There’s no reason why you should need to charge for 60 minutes during a road trip, unless you’re in an area where the charging network is still very underdeveloped (which is still too many places obviously).

greedo 5y ago
I hear this all the time yet I think it's misguided. Trying to educate users that they're "holding it wrong" instead of satisfying expectations is a fundamental mistake. For example, I make several trips each year to visit family out of state. This is in the Midwest US, where winters are no fun, and dramatically affect range for an EV. The route is roughly 400 miles, and takes about 5/12 hours. According to the route planner in my friends Model Y, I would need to make 3 stops and I'd arrive at the inlaws house with 25% charge. I'd have to charge overnight there (they won't ever have a fast charger), and that might get me to 35%, depending on the temperature. On the way home, since I'm not starting at 100% capacity, I would have to make 4 stops. This makes the trip outbound roughly 7 hours, and the trip home almost 8. Now compare this to an ICE. We make one stop, for roughly 5 minutes to refill gas and use the bathroom. Both legs of the trip are about 6 hours tops.
- wbsss4412 5y ago
  “You’re holding it wrong” was a design flaw, the fact that batteries charge faster depending on the state of the battery pack is just physics. Unless we get to a point where charging is faster by using a linear charge rate, what I said is always going to be true. As per what your friends Tesla says, it’s obviously optimizing for the wrong thing, but that’s because it doesn’t have the correct information. It’s still going to be based on the owner’s judgement to actually make sure to operate their vehicle correctly. Imagine a world where everyone drove EVs and we were suddenly switching to gas cars with manual transmissions (because automatics aren’t invented yet) learning to drive stick is not going to be a pleasant experience for more people. The fact of the matter is that there are going to be things to learn when adopting a new technology. (Plenty of people are and were completely baffled by how to use a smartphone at first too)
  - greedo 5y ago
    Why do you think the route planner on the Tesla doesn't have the correct information? It knows the route, the expected electricity consumption, the location of superchargers, and the expected weather. It also has tons of information to predict how the car and battery would perform in that weather, and possibly on that exact route.