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That index measures the perceived corruption, and would be subject to the same bias the article discusses. Even when the British government gives away $24 billi

That index measures the perceived corruption, and would be subject to the same bias the article discusses. Even when the British government gives away $24 billion dollars to people recommended by MPs and government officials, that isn't perceived as "corruption" in the same way.

crazydoggers 5y ago
> That index measures the perceived corruption, and would be subject to the same bias the article discusses. Not sure on what grounds you make that statement. Just actually reading the Wikipedia article: “as determined by expert assessments and opinion surveys” And “A study published in 2012 found a ‘very strong significant correlation’ between the Corruption Perceptions Index and two other proxies for corruption: black market activity and an overabundance of regulation. All three metrics also had a highly significant correlation with real gross domestic product per capita” And not saying there’s not corruption in UK or other western nations, but the aljazeera piece comes across like propaganda without much in the way of concrete data.
- pydry 5y ago
  Black market activity is by definition hidden, so how did they measure it accurately? And since when did lots of regulations === corruption? What even counts as "an overabundance"? There's not even a clearly defined measure of regulatory abundance, let alone over. This study sounds fishy as hell.
- boomboomsubban 5y ago
  >Not sure on what grounds you make that statement. It's called the "Corruption Perceptions Index," or the index of perceived corruption. It's purely based on the opinion of people about the corruption in countries. The correlation to the black market and overregulation further demonstrates my point, the British corruption I discussed needed no black market and was enabled by a complete lack of regulation. None of those three measurements would consider clear corruption to be corruption.
  - crazydoggers 5y ago
    > It's purely based on the opinion of people about the corruption in countries. I love when people don’t actually read the Wikipedia article: “performance assessments from a group of analysts. Early CPIs used public opinion surveys. The institutions are:[ African Development Bank (based in Côte d'Ivoire) Bertelsmann Foundation (based in Germany) Economist Intelligence Unit (based in the UK) Freedom House (based in the US) Global Insight (based in US) International Institute for Management Development (based in Switzerland) Political and Economic Risk Consultancy (based in Hong Kong) The PRS Group, Inc., (based in the US) World Economic Forum World Bank” > It's correlation to the black market and overregulation further demonstrates my point, the British corruption I discussed needed no black market and was enabled by a complete lack of regulation. This makes no sense. Black markets are fostered by corruption. That’s why they exists. The fact that western countries have less black market activity points to less corruption not more.
    - boomboomsubban 5y ago
      I did read your Wikipedia article. A performance assessment is a fancy term for an opinion unless they detail their methodology with evidence. >The fact that western countries have less black market activity points to less corruption not more. Western corruption needs no black market, that $24 billion dollars awarded to friends of MPs and government officials can be deposited in banks and spent in stores like any other money. edit From the wiki article. >The CPI measures perception of corruption due to the difficulty of measuring absolute levels of corruption.
      - crazydoggers 5y ago
        > I did read your Wikipedia article. It wasn’t “my” Wikipedia article. Another commenter posted it. I just read it before commenting. > fancy term for an opinion unless they detail their methodology with evidence. You mean this methodology? Which is linked at the bottom of the Wikipedia article?? So you clearly didn’t read it. https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2020 https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2020 When I make comments on things online, I try to educate myself first rather than just asserting things with bias.

crazydoggers 5y ago

> That index measures the perceived corruption, and would be subject to the same bias the article discusses. Not sure on what grounds you make that statement. Just actually reading the Wikipedia article: “as determined by expert assessments and opinion surveys” And “A study published in 2012 found a ‘very strong significant correlation’ between the Corruption Perceptions Index and two other proxies for corruption: black market activity and an overabundance of regulation. All three metrics also had a highly significant correlation with real gross domestic product per capita” And not saying there’s not corruption in UK or other western nations, but the aljazeera piece comes across like propaganda without much in the way of concrete data.

pydry 5y ago
Black market activity is by definition hidden, so how did they measure it accurately? And since when did lots of regulations === corruption? What even counts as "an overabundance"? There's not even a clearly defined measure of regulatory abundance, let alone over. This study sounds fishy as hell.
boomboomsubban 5y ago
>Not sure on what grounds you make that statement. It's called the "Corruption Perceptions Index," or the index of perceived corruption. It's purely based on the opinion of people about the corruption in countries. The correlation to the black market and overregulation further demonstrates my point, the British corruption I discussed needed no black market and was enabled by a complete lack of regulation. None of those three measurements would consider clear corruption to be corruption.
- crazydoggers 5y ago
  > It's purely based on the opinion of people about the corruption in countries. I love when people don’t actually read the Wikipedia article: “performance assessments from a group of analysts. Early CPIs used public opinion surveys. The institutions are:[ African Development Bank (based in Côte d'Ivoire) Bertelsmann Foundation (based in Germany) Economist Intelligence Unit (based in the UK) Freedom House (based in the US) Global Insight (based in US) International Institute for Management Development (based in Switzerland) Political and Economic Risk Consultancy (based in Hong Kong) The PRS Group, Inc., (based in the US) World Economic Forum World Bank” > It's correlation to the black market and overregulation further demonstrates my point, the British corruption I discussed needed no black market and was enabled by a complete lack of regulation. This makes no sense. Black markets are fostered by corruption. That’s why they exists. The fact that western countries have less black market activity points to less corruption not more.
  - boomboomsubban 5y ago
    I did read your Wikipedia article. A performance assessment is a fancy term for an opinion unless they detail their methodology with evidence. >The fact that western countries have less black market activity points to less corruption not more. Western corruption needs no black market, that $24 billion dollars awarded to friends of MPs and government officials can be deposited in banks and spent in stores like any other money. edit From the wiki article. >The CPI measures perception of corruption due to the difficulty of measuring absolute levels of corruption.
    - crazydoggers 5y ago
      > I did read your Wikipedia article. It wasn’t “my” Wikipedia article. Another commenter posted it. I just read it before commenting. > fancy term for an opinion unless they detail their methodology with evidence. You mean this methodology? Which is linked at the bottom of the Wikipedia article?? So you clearly didn’t read it. https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2020 https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2020 When I make comments on things online, I try to educate myself first rather than just asserting things with bias.