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Battery chemistry is also a challenge. Also it’s not just the charging cable but the electrical infrastructure behind that cable that also needs an upgrade. You

by JCM9 5y ago

Battery chemistry is also a challenge. Also it’s not just the charging cable but the electrical infrastructure behind that cable that also needs an upgrade. You can’t just pull 2k + amps across an endpoint of the grid without causing potential issues to others nearby, let alone the wiring required send that to the charging point where this cable is used. Interesting research, but this is a much bigger challenge than just the charging cable.

haroman 5y ago
Yes, this makes sense. Compatibility also plays a part in here.
cogman10 5y ago
Agreed. Also importantly, the more complex the cable is, the more expensive it will be to replace if someone comes along with some bolt sheers and clips the cable. Our "current" (pun intended) cables can deliver 350kW of juice. That's already more than most car battery chemistries can accept for more than a few minutes before doing harm to the battery. Not to mention the fact that even if you could deliver such high amounts of power, that'd translate into insane requirements on the grid, likely necessitating onsite storage to act as a buffer. All in all, the recharge time problem is overblown. There isn't as much need for high speed charge infrastructure as you'd imagine. That's because most charging is happening at home at lower speeds. Your car almost certainly sits idle for more than 8 hours every day which is plenty of time to refill. Fast charging really only matters for long range excursions, which aren't terribly common.
- niffydroid 5y ago
  I've not read the article yet but I would assume if the battery could take the load, then having charge points where the infrastructure can handle the load and deliver it would be ideal. Like you say as long as you recharge overnight, it should be good for most People
- mjrpes 5y ago
  There's a large portion of the population who street park and don't have the luxury of charging overnight.
  - cogman10 5y ago
    Correct. Those streets are long distances from electrical lines (very often, power is buried next to the road). The "right" solution here is for cities to install charge points in the streets or to incentivize anyone with a parking lot to install charge points (or both).
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    A big chunk of those people could be served by a simple fast charger that filled the battery during their grocery shopping. And, of course, adding more level 2 charging at the curb.
- vanilla_nut 5y ago
  For folks who own a home with a garage, sure. Most people do not own a home with a garage. For the rest of us, fast charging is an absolute requirement — both for long term trips, yes, and just to keep juice in the car on a daily basis. It’s why I bought an ICE car last year: if you don’t own your own garage, there’s weak charging options available in most US cities.
- instaheat 5y ago
  I have to disagree with you. It's not overblown. If we were able to "top up" our electric vehicles in the same amount of time it takes our ICE vehicles, we've got a whole new ballgame in terms of adoption. You have to take human nature into account. "I'll just get gas in the morning" Requiring careful planning and dedicated charging at home isn't going to lead to an electric car revolution.
  - cogman10 5y ago
    While I admit it's not accessible to all, charging at home requires absolutely no planning. Park the car? plug it in. Do that, and you'll end up with more than enough charge for daily tasks. I drive an EV and the only time I worry about fast charging is on road trips. Which, for me that happens once every and a half hours while driving (approximately) and gives me a 30 minute break to wash the windshield, grab a snack, use a restroom. All in all, not really a big deal. That, to me, is why it's overblown. With cars getting even longer ranges, it becomes even less of an issue. The first EV with 500 miles of range will be a game changer.
paul7986 5y ago
And personally for me the UX of filling my gas tank (done in two or three minutes) vs. having to wait 15 to 60 minutes on one of my many tri-state weekend road trips is why I'm not excited yet to buy an EV. So I'm gonna pay tons of more money for an EV yet not being offered the same level convenience. Thus eagerly awaiting the day where the same UX is offered.
- t0mas88 5y ago
  It's being solved from both ends, on one side fast-charging is getting faster and on the other end the range is increasing. If the range is 600+ miles, you probably wouldn't mind a 30 minutes charging time because you want to stop to eat anyway. On the other hand fast charging still has issues with capacity. If several cars want to fast-charge at the same time, there either aren't enough spots or when there are the charging rate is decreased because there isn't enough power available to fast-charge many cars. And this is with a minority of cars being electric, if everyone switches to EVs this problem becomes much bigger. There is a lot of work to do on the grid and maybe some form of local storage of energy at larger highway charging stops.
  - fouc 5y ago
    Yeah good point about higher range reducing the pressure on fast charging.
  - protomyth 5y ago
    If the range is 600+ miles The other problem is that range estimates do not take into account cold weather and no garage. I bought a hybrid and I probably should have bought an ICE that got in the 40mpg instead of the 55mpg hybrid since winter is very bad on batteries.
- wbsss4412 5y ago
  Part of it is an educational component. People think of EVs the same way they think of ICE. They essentially ask “how long does it take to fill up my tank” because that’s what they do with gas. But what you would do for long road trips is fill up enough to complete the next leg of your trip. EVs charge faster the lower the battery charge is. There’s no reason why you should need to charge for 60 minutes during a road trip, unless you’re in an area where the charging network is still very underdeveloped (which is still too many places obviously).
deleted 5y ago
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by JCM9 5y ago

haroman 5y ago

Yes, this makes sense. Compatibility also plays a part in here.

cogman10 5y ago

Agreed. Also importantly, the more complex the cable is, the more expensive it will be to replace if someone comes along with some bolt sheers and clips the cable. Our "current" (pun intended) cables can deliver 350kW of juice. That's already more than most car battery chemistries can accept for more than a few minutes before doing harm to the battery. Not to mention the fact that even if you could deliver such high amounts of power, that'd translate into insane requirements on the grid, likely necessitating onsite storage to act as a buffer. All in all, the recharge time problem is overblown. There isn't as much need for high speed charge infrastructure as you'd imagine. That's because most charging is happening at home at lower speeds. Your car almost certainly sits idle for more than 8 hours every day which is plenty of time to refill. Fast charging really only matters for long range excursions, which aren't terribly common.

niffydroid 5y ago
I've not read the article yet but I would assume if the battery could take the load, then having charge points where the infrastructure can handle the load and deliver it would be ideal. Like you say as long as you recharge overnight, it should be good for most People
mjrpes 5y ago
There's a large portion of the population who street park and don't have the luxury of charging overnight.
- cogman10 5y ago
  Correct. Those streets are long distances from electrical lines (very often, power is buried next to the road). The "right" solution here is for cities to install charge points in the streets or to incentivize anyone with a parking lot to install charge points (or both).
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  A big chunk of those people could be served by a simple fast charger that filled the battery during their grocery shopping. And, of course, adding more level 2 charging at the curb.
vanilla_nut 5y ago
For folks who own a home with a garage, sure. Most people do not own a home with a garage. For the rest of us, fast charging is an absolute requirement — both for long term trips, yes, and just to keep juice in the car on a daily basis. It’s why I bought an ICE car last year: if you don’t own your own garage, there’s weak charging options available in most US cities.
instaheat 5y ago
I have to disagree with you. It's not overblown. If we were able to "top up" our electric vehicles in the same amount of time it takes our ICE vehicles, we've got a whole new ballgame in terms of adoption. You have to take human nature into account. "I'll just get gas in the morning" Requiring careful planning and dedicated charging at home isn't going to lead to an electric car revolution.
- cogman10 5y ago
  While I admit it's not accessible to all, charging at home requires absolutely no planning. Park the car? plug it in. Do that, and you'll end up with more than enough charge for daily tasks. I drive an EV and the only time I worry about fast charging is on road trips. Which, for me that happens once every and a half hours while driving (approximately) and gives me a 30 minute break to wash the windshield, grab a snack, use a restroom. All in all, not really a big deal. That, to me, is why it's overblown. With cars getting even longer ranges, it becomes even less of an issue. The first EV with 500 miles of range will be a game changer.

paul7986 5y ago

And personally for me the UX of filling my gas tank (done in two or three minutes) vs. having to wait 15 to 60 minutes on one of my many tri-state weekend road trips is why I'm not excited yet to buy an EV. So I'm gonna pay tons of more money for an EV yet not being offered the same level convenience. Thus eagerly awaiting the day where the same UX is offered.

t0mas88 5y ago
It's being solved from both ends, on one side fast-charging is getting faster and on the other end the range is increasing. If the range is 600+ miles, you probably wouldn't mind a 30 minutes charging time because you want to stop to eat anyway. On the other hand fast charging still has issues with capacity. If several cars want to fast-charge at the same time, there either aren't enough spots or when there are the charging rate is decreased because there isn't enough power available to fast-charge many cars. And this is with a minority of cars being electric, if everyone switches to EVs this problem becomes much bigger. There is a lot of work to do on the grid and maybe some form of local storage of energy at larger highway charging stops.
- fouc 5y ago
  Yeah good point about higher range reducing the pressure on fast charging.
- protomyth 5y ago
  If the range is 600+ miles The other problem is that range estimates do not take into account cold weather and no garage. I bought a hybrid and I probably should have bought an ICE that got in the 40mpg instead of the 55mpg hybrid since winter is very bad on batteries.
wbsss4412 5y ago
Part of it is an educational component. People think of EVs the same way they think of ICE. They essentially ask “how long does it take to fill up my tank” because that’s what they do with gas. But what you would do for long road trips is fill up enough to complete the next leg of your trip. EVs charge faster the lower the battery charge is. There’s no reason why you should need to charge for 60 minutes during a road trip, unless you’re in an area where the charging network is still very underdeveloped (which is still too many places obviously).

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]