5 ms·

>>> Practically all the actual work a PM does is communication. Practically all the actual work a PM does can be replaced with a script and dashboard

onion2k 5y ago
Practically all the actual work a PM does can be replaced with a script and dashboard That is entirely true if you have an organised, disciplined dev team that communicates well. Good luck with that.
- kayodelycaon 5y ago
  This isn't true even with a organized, disciplined team. What happens is the responsibilities of get divided out to other people on the team. Usually not the entire team, so some people are stuck with unacknowledged overhead.
  - nzmsv 5y ago
    Unacknowledged overhead happens even with a PM present. Usually it's work that is absolutely critical to getting a project done but a PM would tell you it's a waste of time if you brought it up with them.
    - lifeisstillgood 5y ago
      Thank you. Another vital point - trying to tell people the real critical path is over there but no-one agreed it in the plan is .. ahh well
subsubzero 5y ago
For small tasks, yes this works. For larger feature work that involves cross-team collaboration, including legal, security etc, a pm is a godsend.
- lifeisstillgood 5y ago
  meh. The problem is authority. PM / manager as described above is a co-ordination issue. Often administrative as well. Either the company is imposing administrative burden a that it can remove with a little effort and scripting, or again it is co-ordination - which software usually excels at. We can endlessly debate specifics but yes, there are many corporate environments that are almost impossible to navigate without full-time skilled administration - it that is a choice by the company not an inherent law of nature. I seem to recall a Microsoft anecdote where someone released an internal form for developers to fill out, and billg personally sent round collecting the form telling people that sort of thing was not the Microsoft way. Far be MSFT from an ideal but bureaucracy is a choice. Edit: my take on hierarchy and decision making is that it is clearly "obvious" that in war and times of stress there is only enough time for one person, the "hero", to review the battlefield and make decisions, which everyone else then follows. The problem with that is throughout human history that idea has literally had no better than 50/50 chance of succeeding. I am very much short on Project management, administrative management as authority and generally anything that points away from democracy.

onion2k 5y ago

Practically all the actual work a PM does can be replaced with a script and dashboard That is entirely true if you have an organised, disciplined dev team that communicates well. Good luck with that.

kayodelycaon 5y ago
This isn't true even with a organized, disciplined team. What happens is the responsibilities of get divided out to other people on the team. Usually not the entire team, so some people are stuck with unacknowledged overhead.
- nzmsv 5y ago
  Unacknowledged overhead happens even with a PM present. Usually it's work that is absolutely critical to getting a project done but a PM would tell you it's a waste of time if you brought it up with them.
  - lifeisstillgood 5y ago
    Thank you. Another vital point - trying to tell people the real critical path is over there but no-one agreed it in the plan is .. ahh well

subsubzero 5y ago

For small tasks, yes this works. For larger feature work that involves cross-team collaboration, including legal, security etc, a pm is a godsend.

lifeisstillgood 5y ago
meh. The problem is authority. PM / manager as described above is a co-ordination issue. Often administrative as well. Either the company is imposing administrative burden a that it can remove with a little effort and scripting, or again it is co-ordination - which software usually excels at. We can endlessly debate specifics but yes, there are many corporate environments that are almost impossible to navigate without full-time skilled administration - it that is a choice by the company not an inherent law of nature. I seem to recall a Microsoft anecdote where someone released an internal form for developers to fill out, and billg personally sent round collecting the form telling people that sort of thing was not the Microsoft way. Far be MSFT from an ideal but bureaucracy is a choice. Edit: my take on hierarchy and decision making is that it is clearly "obvious" that in war and times of stress there is only enough time for one person, the "hero", to review the battlefield and make decisions, which everyone else then follows. The problem with that is throughout human history that idea has literally had no better than 50/50 chance of succeeding. I am very much short on Project management, administrative management as authority and generally anything that points away from democracy.