3 ms·

> cost-per-TB There you have it: You measure in TB, not gigabytes, not megabytes. Python packages are megabytes.

josefx 5y ago
Not if they pull in all of their dependencies, PyQt would have a complete copy of all Qt binaries and a complete chrome install because of course Qt includes a browser based html viewer. Python packages are gigabytes.
- zamadatix 5y ago
  What distro is pulling PyQt as a dependency of Python? There is a difference between "dependency" and "every package which has the word python in the description".
- mccorrinall 5y ago
  PyQt only contains the bindings. You share the same Qt environment across your system (hence qmake needs to be in your path). The python package itself is not that big (~10 MB).
  - josefx 5y ago
    The comment on top of this chain is about letting every package specify its own versioned dependencies. So how would that global version work out when python needs 5.1 and some other software specifies 5.2?
    - mccorrinall 5y ago
      Qt minor releases are backwards binary and source compatible, but not forward. Therefore this would not be an issue.
      - josefx 5y ago
        That guarantee only applies to Qt itself, I would expect that the newer Qt binary was also compiled against all the other newest versions of its own dependencies. Good luck finding a backwards compatibility promise for all of them.
- thereddaikon 5y ago
  Fortunately there are a thousand gigabytes in a terabyte and nobody is using a system with single or double digit gigs of storage anymore. Unless you are trying to save a buck it seems 1TB is the standard today. My primary desktop has 4.
  - josefx 5y ago
    > Unless you are trying to save a buck it seems 1TB is the standard today. Buying a 1TB external SSD would more than double the cost of a raspberry pi 4 that and my ancient beagle board does fine running from 32 GB. > My primary desktop has 4. Those are rookie numbers for a primary system. Of course my Office system next to it is a lot lower specked with the test system next to it even lower.
    - thereddaikon 5y ago
      Eh I think embedded systems are a different class. I know some people run RPis as their desktops but they are definitely the minority. >Those are rookie numbers for a primary system 4TB suits my needs and use case fine. And tha'ts not counting my NAS.
    - zamadatix 5y ago
      Embedded systems really shouldn't be brought into play here but even then a 256 GB uSD card for the Pi is $25 dollars and itself far overkill. My entire primary desktop OS, firmware, DEs, and very extensive package set fits in 15 GB. Multiplying my primary system by 10 and sticking it on a Pi taking $25 of storage with plenty to spare is still not an argument against binary sizes, especially since there are niche distro spins used for that niche space anyways.
    - cozzyd 5y ago
      The eMMC on a Beaglebone Black is 4GB. Sure you can boot off an SD card but that's less robust (though, I guess you can use the SD card for all your virtualenvs...).
  - Delk 5y ago
    > Unless you are trying to save a buck it seems 1TB is the standard today. I suppose part of the problem is that while getting a 1 TB SSD instead of a 512 GB or even 256 GB one may not be overly expensive (for a middle-class person in a wealthy country anyway), due to the way OEM laptop product lines are often stratified, you may need to either buy your 1 TB SSD separately or get an altogether higher-specced model than your perhaps otherwise would. The latter especially isn't cheap. There might be some customization options but sometimes little customization is available. That's probably one of the ways people end up with relatively small-capacity SSDs. It's kind of similar as with RAM: a higher capacity isn't that much more expensive in theory, but in practice it may be. This is irrelevant for custom-build desktops but lots of people are running only laptops nowadays. I'd like to see better customizability for the builds, as well as upgradability and replaceability, but the options are often limited.
cozzyd 5y ago
A typical virtualenv for a project I work on is > 500 MB. That adds up.

Not if they pull in all of their dependencies, PyQt would have a complete copy of all Qt binaries and a complete chrome install because of course Qt includes a browser based html viewer. Python packages are gigabytes.

zamadatix 5y ago
What distro is pulling PyQt as a dependency of Python? There is a difference between "dependency" and "every package which has the word python in the description".
mccorrinall 5y ago
PyQt only contains the bindings. You share the same Qt environment across your system (hence qmake needs to be in your path). The python package itself is not that big (~10 MB).
- josefx 5y ago
  The comment on top of this chain is about letting every package specify its own versioned dependencies. So how would that global version work out when python needs 5.1 and some other software specifies 5.2?
  - mccorrinall 5y ago
    Qt minor releases are backwards binary and source compatible, but not forward. Therefore this would not be an issue.
    - josefx 5y ago
      That guarantee only applies to Qt itself, I would expect that the newer Qt binary was also compiled against all the other newest versions of its own dependencies. Good luck finding a backwards compatibility promise for all of them.
thereddaikon 5y ago
Fortunately there are a thousand gigabytes in a terabyte and nobody is using a system with single or double digit gigs of storage anymore. Unless you are trying to save a buck it seems 1TB is the standard today. My primary desktop has 4.
- josefx 5y ago
  > Unless you are trying to save a buck it seems 1TB is the standard today. Buying a 1TB external SSD would more than double the cost of a raspberry pi 4 that and my ancient beagle board does fine running from 32 GB. > My primary desktop has 4. Those are rookie numbers for a primary system. Of course my Office system next to it is a lot lower specked with the test system next to it even lower.
  - thereddaikon 5y ago
    Eh I think embedded systems are a different class. I know some people run RPis as their desktops but they are definitely the minority. >Those are rookie numbers for a primary system 4TB suits my needs and use case fine. And tha'ts not counting my NAS.
  - zamadatix 5y ago
    Embedded systems really shouldn't be brought into play here but even then a 256 GB uSD card for the Pi is $25 dollars and itself far overkill. My entire primary desktop OS, firmware, DEs, and very extensive package set fits in 15 GB. Multiplying my primary system by 10 and sticking it on a Pi taking $25 of storage with plenty to spare is still not an argument against binary sizes, especially since there are niche distro spins used for that niche space anyways.
  - cozzyd 5y ago
    The eMMC on a Beaglebone Black is 4GB. Sure you can boot off an SD card but that's less robust (though, I guess you can use the SD card for all your virtualenvs...).
- Delk 5y ago
  > Unless you are trying to save a buck it seems 1TB is the standard today. I suppose part of the problem is that while getting a 1 TB SSD instead of a 512 GB or even 256 GB one may not be overly expensive (for a middle-class person in a wealthy country anyway), due to the way OEM laptop product lines are often stratified, you may need to either buy your 1 TB SSD separately or get an altogether higher-specced model than your perhaps otherwise would. The latter especially isn't cheap. There might be some customization options but sometimes little customization is available. That's probably one of the ways people end up with relatively small-capacity SSDs. It's kind of similar as with RAM: a higher capacity isn't that much more expensive in theory, but in practice it may be. This is irrelevant for custom-build desktops but lots of people are running only laptops nowadays. I'd like to see better customizability for the builds, as well as upgradability and replaceability, but the options are often limited.

cozzyd 5y ago

A typical virtualenv for a project I work on is > 500 MB. That adds up.