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No they wouldn’t. Steam turbines can take days to ramp up and connect to the grid. Several dams in my state barely reach full capacity and are not running 24/7.

by wil421 5y ago

No they wouldn’t. Steam turbines can take days to ramp up and connect to the grid. Several dams in my state barely reach full capacity and are not running 24/7. The co-op that supplies my power offers a flex plan that gives you free power from 11pm-6am. You’re supposed to schedule your car to charge during that time. If half the cars in my county did this nightly it would be easier to predict the nightly loads.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 5y ago
> The co-op that supplies my power offers a flex plan that gives you free power from 11pm-6am. Can you sign up for that plan and just mine Bitcoin during that time?
- loonster 5y ago
  Just call it an electric heater.
- obiwan14 5y ago
  I get free eletricity from 8pm - 5am. And yes, I did mining for while during that time frame when it was still possible to mine with one GPU.
jacquesm 5y ago
But then it almost certainly wouldn't be free anymore.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- ZeroGravitas 5y ago
  It probably will still provide some "payment" back, as long as some control is allowed for the grid operator. At the moment they're happy with "charge any time between these hours", once everyone starts doing it it'll probably be "free if you leave your car plugged in and let us decide when and how much to charge". Shifting demand has a price and they'll pay that to the users that help them achieve it in some form or other. After all, if you don't charge it then, they'll need to provide the power later when it could cost them many multiples, it's just good business sense.
eldaisfish 5y ago
For a forum focused on meaningful and substantive discussion, the amount of incorrect information around EVs and the power grid is shocking. GP's point is a good one although there is work happening to address that very problem. The point stands, though. EVs are a significant bump in both power and energy and will require significant investment in shoring up grid capacity. Sad this is downvoted. >Steam turbines can take days to ramp up and connect to the grid How is this relevant here? Also, the typical steam turbine takes hours to spin up and sync to the grid, not days. I am not aware of any steam turbines that require burning two day's worth of fuel just to connect to the grid. >Several dams in my state barely reach full capacity and are not running 24/7. Again, how is this relevant in a broader context? Lots of places have dams running dry just as equally many have dams overflowing. >The co-op that supplies my power offers a flex plan that gives you free power from 11pm-6am. Ok? This is not par for the course so i'm nor sure why you're mentioning it. >You’re supposed to schedule your car to charge during that time. And if you can't? What if offices suddenly have 50 EVs charging at the same time? Will this not lead to a capacity constraint? If you broaden the horizon, can this not lead to a localised collapse of the grid due to a demand surge? >If half the cars in my county did this nightly it would be easier to predict the nightly loads. It would also lead to a huge surge in power at the times when solar output is literally zero.
- natch 5y ago
  >What if offices suddenly have 50 EVs charging at the same time? They do. No problems so far. >Will this not lead to a capacity constraint? No. Batteries and rooftop solar. >If you broaden the horizon, can this not lead to a localised collapse of the grid due to a demand surge? Not with batteries and rooftop solar, no. We good? >It would also lead to a huge surge in power It's not a "huge surge." Many other appliances are off at night. The grid has excess power at night. The larger problems are in the day, caused by things like massive use of AC, which problems will be ameliorated by installation of more rooftop solar. Win win. >at the times when solar output is literally zero. Batteries. And, sometimes, when needed, you also, wait for it… use fossil fuels or other non-solar sources! We can cut fossil fuel use drastically and cut carbon emissions, but still use them when needed, and everything will be OK!
fnord77 5y ago
> The co-op that supplies my power offers a flex plan that gives you free power from 11pm-6am. where are you? how are crypto miners not all over this?
- CyanLite2 5y ago
  Two of the biggest crypto miners are in Texas, where (until very recently) power was essentially free at night. The winter storm this past February changed the economics a little bit, but for the most part, the Texas Power Grid creates more power than can be consumed at night. And supposedly if the power grid (ERCOT) has enough consumption, they will pay the miners to shut down.
ben_w 5y ago
> The co-op that supplies my power offers a flex plan that gives you free power from 11pm-6am. You’re supposed to schedule your car to charge during that time. One thing I’ve realised recently, is that while this is an improvement compared to the status quo, at some point we’re likely to be running houses off car batteries in these hours and charging the cars off PV during the day. By the continuum hypothesis, at some point the net average power transfer into/out of cars/any given car is going to be zero, and I wonder what that will look like economically?
- tannedNerd 5y ago
  You won’t be doing that unless it’s a blackout. The amount of extra cycles that would put on your battery wouldn’t be worth it. Considering the vast majority of the cost of a EV is your battery, the cost savings just don’t add up when you add the damage to your vehicles range and worth.
  - ben_w 5y ago
    I’m not sure what average domestic nighttime electrical power use currently is, but 500 watts seems plausible, and cycling 6 kWh per day of an EV’s battery doesn’t seem like it will add much wear compared to normal use, unless you have better figures to estimate from?
flyinghamster 5y ago
Also, a major source of electrical demand is being systematically diminished: lighting. Energy-efficient lighting is more and more prevalent with each passing day. Last year, my town's side streets were equipped with LED streetlights, which meant replacing 175W mercury-arc and 150W HPS fixtures with 40W LEDs that are noticeably brighter and produce a far more pleasant light.

by wil421 5y ago

RcouF1uZ4gsC 5y ago

> The co-op that supplies my power offers a flex plan that gives you free power from 11pm-6am. Can you sign up for that plan and just mine Bitcoin during that time?

loonster 5y ago
Just call it an electric heater.
obiwan14 5y ago
I get free eletricity from 8pm - 5am. And yes, I did mining for while during that time frame when it was still possible to mine with one GPU.

jacquesm 5y ago

But then it almost certainly wouldn't be free anymore.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ZeroGravitas 5y ago
It probably will still provide some "payment" back, as long as some control is allowed for the grid operator. At the moment they're happy with "charge any time between these hours", once everyone starts doing it it'll probably be "free if you leave your car plugged in and let us decide when and how much to charge". Shifting demand has a price and they'll pay that to the users that help them achieve it in some form or other. After all, if you don't charge it then, they'll need to provide the power later when it could cost them many multiples, it's just good business sense.

eldaisfish 5y ago

For a forum focused on meaningful and substantive discussion, the amount of incorrect information around EVs and the power grid is shocking. GP's point is a good one although there is work happening to address that very problem. The point stands, though. EVs are a significant bump in both power and energy and will require significant investment in shoring up grid capacity. Sad this is downvoted. >Steam turbines can take days to ramp up and connect to the grid How is this relevant here? Also, the typical steam turbine takes hours to spin up and sync to the grid, not days. I am not aware of any steam turbines that require burning two day's worth of fuel just to connect to the grid. >Several dams in my state barely reach full capacity and are not running 24/7. Again, how is this relevant in a broader context? Lots of places have dams running dry just as equally many have dams overflowing. >The co-op that supplies my power offers a flex plan that gives you free power from 11pm-6am. Ok? This is not par for the course so i'm nor sure why you're mentioning it. >You’re supposed to schedule your car to charge during that time. And if you can't? What if offices suddenly have 50 EVs charging at the same time? Will this not lead to a capacity constraint? If you broaden the horizon, can this not lead to a localised collapse of the grid due to a demand surge? >If half the cars in my county did this nightly it would be easier to predict the nightly loads. It would also lead to a huge surge in power at the times when solar output is literally zero.

natch 5y ago
>What if offices suddenly have 50 EVs charging at the same time? They do. No problems so far. >Will this not lead to a capacity constraint? No. Batteries and rooftop solar. >If you broaden the horizon, can this not lead to a localised collapse of the grid due to a demand surge? Not with batteries and rooftop solar, no. We good? >It would also lead to a huge surge in power It's not a "huge surge." Many other appliances are off at night. The grid has excess power at night. The larger problems are in the day, caused by things like massive use of AC, which problems will be ameliorated by installation of more rooftop solar. Win win. >at the times when solar output is literally zero. Batteries. And, sometimes, when needed, you also, wait for it… use fossil fuels or other non-solar sources! We can cut fossil fuel use drastically and cut carbon emissions, but still use them when needed, and everything will be OK!

fnord77 5y ago

> The co-op that supplies my power offers a flex plan that gives you free power from 11pm-6am. where are you? how are crypto miners not all over this?

CyanLite2 5y ago
Two of the biggest crypto miners are in Texas, where (until very recently) power was essentially free at night. The winter storm this past February changed the economics a little bit, but for the most part, the Texas Power Grid creates more power than can be consumed at night. And supposedly if the power grid (ERCOT) has enough consumption, they will pay the miners to shut down.

ben_w 5y ago

> The co-op that supplies my power offers a flex plan that gives you free power from 11pm-6am. You’re supposed to schedule your car to charge during that time. One thing I’ve realised recently, is that while this is an improvement compared to the status quo, at some point we’re likely to be running houses off car batteries in these hours and charging the cars off PV during the day. By the continuum hypothesis, at some point the net average power transfer into/out of cars/any given car is going to be zero, and I wonder what that will look like economically?

tannedNerd 5y ago
You won’t be doing that unless it’s a blackout. The amount of extra cycles that would put on your battery wouldn’t be worth it. Considering the vast majority of the cost of a EV is your battery, the cost savings just don’t add up when you add the damage to your vehicles range and worth.
- ben_w 5y ago
  I’m not sure what average domestic nighttime electrical power use currently is, but 500 watts seems plausible, and cycling 6 kWh per day of an EV’s battery doesn’t seem like it will add much wear compared to normal use, unless you have better figures to estimate from?

flyinghamster 5y ago

Also, a major source of electrical demand is being systematically diminished: lighting. Energy-efficient lighting is more and more prevalent with each passing day. Last year, my town's side streets were equipped with LED streetlights, which meant replacing 175W mercury-arc and 150W HPS fixtures with 40W LEDs that are noticeably brighter and produce a far more pleasant light.