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>try to understand what the designer was going for, and go with the flow. This is bad, I should do whatever some dude decided I should do? Example from yesterd

>try to understand what the designer was going for, and go with the flow. This is bad, I should do whatever some dude decided I should do? Example from yesterday , I am testing Chrome and I discovered this browser does not have an option(not even a super hidden one) for "prompt me before quitting" except for Macs where this option exists and it is very visible in the menus. Why Windows and Linux does not have this option? Because designers think so, they know better then the users, they prefer some people getting frustrated, installing weird extensions or stop using the application because their giant EGO tells them that this option is too much, they read in a book somewhere that most users are idiots so the solution is to treat everyone as idiots.

Vinnl 5y ago
You don't have to do anything; you don't even have to use the software in the first place. All I'm saying is that often the choices do make some sense when taken together, or at least more sense than combining some of them with patterns that weren't considered in the design, and thus will work better for you. But if that's not the case for you, or if you don't believe that to be the case, then don't - nobody's forcing you.
- simion314 5y ago
  The issue is when the code exists, the option exists but a fucking designer decides that say 5% of users can be screwed over because his GIANT ego says so. Explain me how it makes sense, please Google the issue with Chrome, read the user issues and then figureout why this things are how they are. Don't waste your time if you don't want to be changed your mind though, the short story is; 1 users need this option, someone with a touch screen was having issue closing the tabs and he was quiting the browser 2 the code exist(and is enabled on Mac) 3 Firefox,Vivalid and other browsers have this option 4 not all Chrome/Chromium users are button licking designers or low RAM idiots that an option somewhere in about:config is too much 5 there was no UX study to support hiding this option. Sure, I will not use Chromium but you can't stop me complain when I see stupid decision made by designers or developers to satisfy their ego, so I will NOT stop complaining, Chromium UX is bad, GNOME UX is bad, you can 1 accept the criticism, yes sometimes designers/leaders are bad, see Apple reverting the keyboard changes after years of fanboys pretending Apple is perfect and users are the problem 2 ignore the criticism, probably you have better things to do then defending some random designer 3 copy/paste some shit excuse like "only 5% users use that so removing is fine" where the numbers are fake , and the rule applies selectively to only whatever the big ego designer decides to remove (other excuses are : is too much work, is too hard for our developers to maintain it, use a third party insecure extension/patch, don't use that, etc.
  - md8z 5y ago
    I accept your criticism but I still find your comment to be unconvincing, if you have reason to believe some statistics (such as 5% users) are faked, then it would be helpful to show: 1. Evidence of that 2. Other more accurate statistics that do show it affects more than 5% of users 3. An explanation as to why 5% is a meaningful threshold. Why shouldn't it be lower? Higher? 4. Suggestions on how to reduce workload if it's too much work or it's too hard Or any other data that you think could back up the conclusion. I understand that this is not easy to do. But if it's not done, then it will continue to be a battle of egos as you describe, and that's not helpful. You don't have to stop complaining but in my experience it pays off to always improve your complaints and make sure they're done in a fully convincing manner. It also helps to avoid insults and personal comments about others, those just distract from the issue. It pays to make sure your complaints are as fact-based as possible. In a big project the original person who made the decision may not even be there anymore, so it's really everyone else that you need to convince. Edit: And please don't just show them to me, show them to the stakeholders who matter and can get things done. I may think some of your info is interesting but that's about as much as I can do, I am not the person you need to be convincing and neither are other random commenters on social media. I get that it's fun to rant on social media but the real hard work doesn't happen there.
    - simion314 5y ago
      OK, so when someone says we removed X feature, or you should do X like we want because is OUR vision, then I think I do not need to bring evidence that this is EGO based and not fact based. About the percentage based excuses, there are several issues: 1 this big ego projects never shown the statistics/telemetry data so I can't prove them wrong since I am not the one that has the data. 2 it is easy to lie with statistics (or studies) so you need to keep an open mind when the source of the statistics is the big ego person and this statistic is supporting his point. 3 I bet that Chrome dev tools are used by less then 5% of users but you don't see the big ego dude removing those super complex features and moved them into a dev version of Chrome only. Why is a super small option super important for this designer person but this super complex and scary and not cool looking feature is there in the menus for a random clueless users to open? The stats are only used when the dude wants to impose his vision. Complaining is important, see Apple new laptop changes, the big ego designers forgot to do actual UX and test with real users/customers and that costed Apple a lot of time. I understand that for open source project I can't apply same demands for good UX research with real users but GNOME has the money from RedHat and it's toxic community forced it as default on distros over DEs with actual real UX research. Conclusion, I as a simple user that just tested Chromium I can't open a ticket and put in it real world data to maybe convince the big ego dudes that are wrong, I can at most put a me too there and get ignored for decades like the File Picker GNOME meme issue, and I will probably get spammed each time an upset user will add it's me too comment and the developers repeat again "you are using it wrong". But I use Chromium/Chrome as minimum as needed, I avoid GNOME and the entire Linux community social media , just the comment I responded was complaining about X and Y browser and I added the Z browser there too to complete the list, and I was salty sicne the solution is to install some "chrome extension" to fix it - it reminds me of the install a GNOME extension excuse too.

Vinnl 5y ago

You don't have to do anything; you don't even have to use the software in the first place. All I'm saying is that often the choices do make some sense when taken together, or at least more sense than combining some of them with patterns that weren't considered in the design, and thus will work better for you. But if that's not the case for you, or if you don't believe that to be the case, then don't - nobody's forcing you.

simion314 5y ago
The issue is when the code exists, the option exists but a fucking designer decides that say 5% of users can be screwed over because his GIANT ego says so. Explain me how it makes sense, please Google the issue with Chrome, read the user issues and then figureout why this things are how they are. Don't waste your time if you don't want to be changed your mind though, the short story is; 1 users need this option, someone with a touch screen was having issue closing the tabs and he was quiting the browser 2 the code exist(and is enabled on Mac) 3 Firefox,Vivalid and other browsers have this option 4 not all Chrome/Chromium users are button licking designers or low RAM idiots that an option somewhere in about:config is too much 5 there was no UX study to support hiding this option. Sure, I will not use Chromium but you can't stop me complain when I see stupid decision made by designers or developers to satisfy their ego, so I will NOT stop complaining, Chromium UX is bad, GNOME UX is bad, you can 1 accept the criticism, yes sometimes designers/leaders are bad, see Apple reverting the keyboard changes after years of fanboys pretending Apple is perfect and users are the problem 2 ignore the criticism, probably you have better things to do then defending some random designer 3 copy/paste some shit excuse like "only 5% users use that so removing is fine" where the numbers are fake , and the rule applies selectively to only whatever the big ego designer decides to remove (other excuses are : is too much work, is too hard for our developers to maintain it, use a third party insecure extension/patch, don't use that, etc.
- md8z 5y ago
  I accept your criticism but I still find your comment to be unconvincing, if you have reason to believe some statistics (such as 5% users) are faked, then it would be helpful to show: 1. Evidence of that 2. Other more accurate statistics that do show it affects more than 5% of users 3. An explanation as to why 5% is a meaningful threshold. Why shouldn't it be lower? Higher? 4. Suggestions on how to reduce workload if it's too much work or it's too hard Or any other data that you think could back up the conclusion. I understand that this is not easy to do. But if it's not done, then it will continue to be a battle of egos as you describe, and that's not helpful. You don't have to stop complaining but in my experience it pays off to always improve your complaints and make sure they're done in a fully convincing manner. It also helps to avoid insults and personal comments about others, those just distract from the issue. It pays to make sure your complaints are as fact-based as possible. In a big project the original person who made the decision may not even be there anymore, so it's really everyone else that you need to convince. Edit: And please don't just show them to me, show them to the stakeholders who matter and can get things done. I may think some of your info is interesting but that's about as much as I can do, I am not the person you need to be convincing and neither are other random commenters on social media. I get that it's fun to rant on social media but the real hard work doesn't happen there.
  - simion314 5y ago
    OK, so when someone says we removed X feature, or you should do X like we want because is OUR vision, then I think I do not need to bring evidence that this is EGO based and not fact based. About the percentage based excuses, there are several issues: 1 this big ego projects never shown the statistics/telemetry data so I can't prove them wrong since I am not the one that has the data. 2 it is easy to lie with statistics (or studies) so you need to keep an open mind when the source of the statistics is the big ego person and this statistic is supporting his point. 3 I bet that Chrome dev tools are used by less then 5% of users but you don't see the big ego dude removing those super complex features and moved them into a dev version of Chrome only. Why is a super small option super important for this designer person but this super complex and scary and not cool looking feature is there in the menus for a random clueless users to open? The stats are only used when the dude wants to impose his vision. Complaining is important, see Apple new laptop changes, the big ego designers forgot to do actual UX and test with real users/customers and that costed Apple a lot of time. I understand that for open source project I can't apply same demands for good UX research with real users but GNOME has the money from RedHat and it's toxic community forced it as default on distros over DEs with actual real UX research. Conclusion, I as a simple user that just tested Chromium I can't open a ticket and put in it real world data to maybe convince the big ego dudes that are wrong, I can at most put a me too there and get ignored for decades like the File Picker GNOME meme issue, and I will probably get spammed each time an upset user will add it's me too comment and the developers repeat again "you are using it wrong". But I use Chromium/Chrome as minimum as needed, I avoid GNOME and the entire Linux community social media , just the comment I responded was complaining about X and Y browser and I added the Z browser there too to complete the list, and I was salty sicne the solution is to install some "chrome extension" to fix it - it reminds me of the install a GNOME extension excuse too.