5 ms·

Relationship market seems like it's the best it's ever been, from a standpoint of equality, that is. COVID unfortunately brought domestic violence rates up, bu

by s5300 5y ago

Relationship market seems like it's the best it's ever been, from a standpoint of equality, that is. COVID unfortunately brought domestic violence rates up, but I wouldn't lump that in with the generality of "relationship market", it's a more serious & specific issue. edit: Ahh, by the time I finish posting you've come and brought up the "nuclear family" Hard to imagine anything good will come from a discussion hinging on that. Anecdata: the males I've personally seem "opting out" have major personal issues and are honestly dangerous to any potential partners, mentally and physically. I don't feel much for them except for wishing the U.S. had better and more affordable healthcare so they could get some mental healthcare. But once again - anecdata - these also aren't the types to seek mental healthcare. Oh well.

pcbro141 5y ago
> Ahh, by the time I finish posting you've come and brought up the "nuclear family" > Hard to imagine anything good will come from a discussion hinging on that. Genuine question, why does it sound like you find me advocating for a 2 parent household almost offensive? Is it because you don't believe any of the data about kids raised in 2 parent households is valid? From my perspective, I genuinely don't understand your reaction here at all because I thought this was a generally accepted fact in psychology/sociology. I'm just asking out of curiosity for your perspective, I promise I'm not baiting you into a debate :)
- s5300 5y ago
  I've made zero reference or statement to "2 parent household" Only the term nuclear family. In any case, "nuclear family" dates to around one century at most, in essentially a singular country. I'd much rather look to the notion of "it takes a village" and extended family concepts that have existed for millennia and overwhelmingly brought us to where we are now.
  - pcbro141 5y ago
    Fair enough, thanks for expanding and that makes sense. I agree ideally we would have more people beyond just the 2 parents around to lean on to help raise kids. Preferably the 2 parents (where possible, not advocating you stick with an abusive partner) plus extended family nearby at the very least. I like the multigenerational lifestyle too.
- astrange 5y ago
  A nuclear family (2 parents) isn't as good as an extended family (more than 2 parents).
  - llampx 5y ago
    source?
    - astrange 5y ago
      This is the reason humans live long enough to be grandparents.
jimmaswell 5y ago
> Relationship market seems like it's the best it's ever been, from a standpoint of equality, that is. What makes you say this? Last I heard the trend of it getting harder and harder for men has been continuing. When one side has to go crazy going to the gym and making themselves interesting and whatever to stand out while the other side just has to put one blurry picture with no text on any dating site to get inundated with suitors, how can you call that equal?
- s5300 5y ago
  I don't understand the nature of your argument other than it sounds like you may have some deep seated insecurities or shortcomings, true or imaginary. If you'd really like to talk about "what's been heard" though, the last I heard the trend was going in the opposite direction of not wanting men who go crazy to the gym, because they tend to be egoistical narcissists. Note: I go crazy to the gym, but solely because I have a rare connective tissue disorder and my body would otherwise fall apart. Well, it still does - just slightly less with the gym religion. Double note: I can anecdotally attest to a decent amount of fellow male gym patrons being egoistical narcissists. I have also met a fair amount of females who fit the same description though. But, also plenty of people who just want to stay fit for various normal reasons.
- MCllorf 5y ago
  My guess would be that online dating is extremely biased in favor of women because men tend to over-value looks while women tend to value things that are harder to communicate at a glance. Which would be why men generally feel ignored and women generally feel like they have tons of really shitty options.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    It's highly biased in favor of women because of the differences between how women and men approach dating and what happens when you scale that.
- pcbro141 5y ago
  I think the primary issue with the hetero 'relationship market' these days, is that it's not really a 'relationship' market if you mean stable relationships. People aren't really looking for stable long term relationships as much. Women are much more open to the idea of having a baby outside of marriage and also intentionally being a single mother than they were in the past. Because women don't really have to settle for 1 man anymore (less stigma nowadays about being single into your 30s/single mother), it becomes more of a hookup market, and naturally women will always have more leverage when it comes to the hookup market due to men's natural higher levels of horniness/willingness to hookup with a wider variety of women than vice versa. If it was a relationship market where everyone has to eventually choose 1 person to settle with like in the past, women wouldn't have as much leverage. You can only have things like '80/20' rule if the market isn't about monogamy (it's not actually 80/20 in reality, but the general dynamic of a minority of men having most of the success with women). Everyone would end up with the same level of success, because everyone would end up with 1 partner if the market was about monogamous stable long term relationships.
lelanthran 5y ago
> Anecdata: the males I've personally seem "opting out" have major personal issues and are honestly dangerous to any potential partners, mentally and physically. Doesn't matter, if too many males opt out females would either have to be alone or compete for the remaining males. Competition would certainly result in changes in male behaviour (because they won't be competing for a mate). This is a vicious cycle which would result in more males having "major personal issues".
- s5300 5y ago
  >if too many males opt out females would either have to be alone or compete for the remaining males. I don't know what's shaped your worldview, but this really isn't how things work, at all. >This is a vicious cycle which would result in more males having "major personal issues". Oh well. With the current trajectory of tech, we'll soon be able to identify these types from whatever tech they use and send out a robo-taxi to take them to their government mandated treatment facility :P Capitalism really is the best, isn't it.
  - lelanthran 5y ago
    > I don't know what's shaped your worldview, but this really isn't how things work, at all. Okay, what do you think happens when there is an imbalance in the ratio of male:female?
  - caique 5y ago
    What are you even talking about? Care to elaborate?

by s5300 5y ago

pcbro141 5y ago

> Ahh, by the time I finish posting you've come and brought up the "nuclear family" > Hard to imagine anything good will come from a discussion hinging on that. Genuine question, why does it sound like you find me advocating for a 2 parent household almost offensive? Is it because you don't believe any of the data about kids raised in 2 parent households is valid? From my perspective, I genuinely don't understand your reaction here at all because I thought this was a generally accepted fact in psychology/sociology. I'm just asking out of curiosity for your perspective, I promise I'm not baiting you into a debate :)

s5300 5y ago
I've made zero reference or statement to "2 parent household" Only the term nuclear family. In any case, "nuclear family" dates to around one century at most, in essentially a singular country. I'd much rather look to the notion of "it takes a village" and extended family concepts that have existed for millennia and overwhelmingly brought us to where we are now.
- pcbro141 5y ago
  Fair enough, thanks for expanding and that makes sense. I agree ideally we would have more people beyond just the 2 parents around to lean on to help raise kids. Preferably the 2 parents (where possible, not advocating you stick with an abusive partner) plus extended family nearby at the very least. I like the multigenerational lifestyle too.
astrange 5y ago
A nuclear family (2 parents) isn't as good as an extended family (more than 2 parents).
- llampx 5y ago
  source?
  - astrange 5y ago
    This is the reason humans live long enough to be grandparents.

jimmaswell 5y ago

> Relationship market seems like it's the best it's ever been, from a standpoint of equality, that is. What makes you say this? Last I heard the trend of it getting harder and harder for men has been continuing. When one side has to go crazy going to the gym and making themselves interesting and whatever to stand out while the other side just has to put one blurry picture with no text on any dating site to get inundated with suitors, how can you call that equal?

s5300 5y ago
I don't understand the nature of your argument other than it sounds like you may have some deep seated insecurities or shortcomings, true or imaginary. If you'd really like to talk about "what's been heard" though, the last I heard the trend was going in the opposite direction of not wanting men who go crazy to the gym, because they tend to be egoistical narcissists. Note: I go crazy to the gym, but solely because I have a rare connective tissue disorder and my body would otherwise fall apart. Well, it still does - just slightly less with the gym religion. Double note: I can anecdotally attest to a decent amount of fellow male gym patrons being egoistical narcissists. I have also met a fair amount of females who fit the same description though. But, also plenty of people who just want to stay fit for various normal reasons.
MCllorf 5y ago
My guess would be that online dating is extremely biased in favor of women because men tend to over-value looks while women tend to value things that are harder to communicate at a glance. Which would be why men generally feel ignored and women generally feel like they have tons of really shitty options.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  It's highly biased in favor of women because of the differences between how women and men approach dating and what happens when you scale that.
pcbro141 5y ago
I think the primary issue with the hetero 'relationship market' these days, is that it's not really a 'relationship' market if you mean stable relationships. People aren't really looking for stable long term relationships as much. Women are much more open to the idea of having a baby outside of marriage and also intentionally being a single mother than they were in the past. Because women don't really have to settle for 1 man anymore (less stigma nowadays about being single into your 30s/single mother), it becomes more of a hookup market, and naturally women will always have more leverage when it comes to the hookup market due to men's natural higher levels of horniness/willingness to hookup with a wider variety of women than vice versa. If it was a relationship market where everyone has to eventually choose 1 person to settle with like in the past, women wouldn't have as much leverage. You can only have things like '80/20' rule if the market isn't about monogamy (it's not actually 80/20 in reality, but the general dynamic of a minority of men having most of the success with women). Everyone would end up with the same level of success, because everyone would end up with 1 partner if the market was about monogamous stable long term relationships.

lelanthran 5y ago

> Anecdata: the males I've personally seem "opting out" have major personal issues and are honestly dangerous to any potential partners, mentally and physically. Doesn't matter, if too many males opt out females would either have to be alone or compete for the remaining males. Competition would certainly result in changes in male behaviour (because they won't be competing for a mate). This is a vicious cycle which would result in more males having "major personal issues".

s5300 5y ago
>if too many males opt out females would either have to be alone or compete for the remaining males. I don't know what's shaped your worldview, but this really isn't how things work, at all. >This is a vicious cycle which would result in more males having "major personal issues". Oh well. With the current trajectory of tech, we'll soon be able to identify these types from whatever tech they use and send out a robo-taxi to take them to their government mandated treatment facility :P Capitalism really is the best, isn't it.
- lelanthran 5y ago
  > I don't know what's shaped your worldview, but this really isn't how things work, at all. Okay, what do you think happens when there is an imbalance in the ratio of male:female?
- caique 5y ago
  What are you even talking about? Care to elaborate?