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I’m going through this right now. I’ve done everything I could to try and save the marriage. My spouse is on the warpath. We have a 2 year-old daughter. I would

by shijie 5y ago

I’m going through this right now. I’ve done everything I could to try and save the marriage. My spouse is on the warpath. We have a 2 year-old daughter. I would be willing to work on myself and expect nothing in return for the rest of my life if it meant my daughter could go to the park with her mommy and daddy together. I cannot say the smallest part of how I feel. Unyielding personal torment and failure. Breaking up a family is truly lose-lose.

yawnr 5y ago
I’m so sorry you’re going through this. No matter what, you can still have a great life and be a great father, though. Maybe not as tidy, but still beautiful.
bitexploder 5y ago
I have stood by a couple of friends over the years that went through really tough divorces. When you have children and the divorce is mostly forced on you it is very tough. It does funny things, as the article says. I told my friend once, with more insight than I realized at the time, something like this: “this will break you or make you something of a philosopher.” To that end I like the Stoics. A lot is out of our control. Figure out what is in your control and do your best with them (Dichotomy of control). It’s a good starting point. Sorry your family must experience this.
- tsol 5y ago
  That reminds me of a Socrates quote "By all means marry. If you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher."
  - bitexploder 5y ago
    Hah, you know, that is probably where that originated from in my brain. I read that quote a long time ago! Thank you :)
mrsmee89 5y ago
I'm so sorry you're going through this. I know the feeling well. Keeping my family together was my numero uno. It drove me mad. I put myself in incredibly vulnerable positions. The thought of my kids growing up without knowing the love that brought them into this world seemed unbearable. Looking back, while I was trying to keep my family together. She was trying to get the most out of our separation. Once I accepted that we weren't going to be a conventional family, I was able to see things with clarity. Accepting it is the hard part. If you're married to someone that has experienced being in an unconventional family then this will feel a lot more normal to them, which absolutely sucks. I really feel for you man.
lelanthran 5y ago
I've been through it, there's nothing you can do and if the mother is really out for blood she will use your child against you. Women get rights, men get obligations.
- dang 5y ago
  I appreciate that you've been through a difficult experience. HN users are welcome to share their experiences here. However, it's not ok to translate the emotion from the experience into flamewar comments. That's the problem with this one: you swerved into generic gender war rhetoric. That's harmful and not ok here. Of course it can be very difficult not to leap from painful experience to dramatic generalization. But it's the sort of thing we all have to work on in order to have HN be the kind of community we're trying for: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
- dlsa 5y ago
  When the child support ends a lot of power the state grants women to tear apart a mans life also evaporates. There's a possibility of a silver lining when child support ends. Divorced men need to remember that. Often times its the very start of men resuming a relationship with the children they've been blocked from seeing for all those years. If men comtemplating suicide could realise this and see it as the light at the end of the very dark tunnel then they might keep their faith in themselves and their future.
  - Damogran6 5y ago
    I think that’s a truism that more people need to hear… “This, too, shall pass.” I was struggling with identity and responsibility when the kids were young and and extremely helpful person on a forum told me that my life would not forever be “swamped husband supporting family with young kids”…or even “parents in a faily of four”…sure I’m still a father of two kids, but they’re off doing their own things and my relationship with my wife is a LOT more like the one I had as a couple, before being parents.
- watwut 5y ago
  If men file for custody they get 50/50. Men who ask for full custody also statistically win more often. You are doing disservice to both kids and men when you tell them they cant have it.
WhiteWalker2021 5y ago
Sorry that you are going through this. Kids are super smart and can sense the energy very quickly. If mommy and daddy aren’t happy together, the kids will know, no matter how much you try to hide it. Also, if the parents aren’t getting along ..that isn’t a model of a good healthy relationship for the kids to experience either. Kids just need love and affection to grow into healthy and happy individuals. That love and care can exist even if the parents separated. Plus, you should choose yourself and your happiness too instead of compromising. Expecting nothing for the rest of your life isn’t a good value to pass on to your kids. Kids will like you and respect you more once they grow up if you choose yourself and your happiness! I totally understand that it’s important to give your level best to make it work and it’s an extremely tough decision to make, I am just trying to provide a different perspective. IMHO modeling healthy loving relationships is extremely important for the kids to witness as well. Wish you the best!
beachy 5y ago
It may sounds trite but I believe you will look back one day and realise this was just a step on the road, painful as it is now. I suggest you hang in there until then, and do your utmost (swallowing whatever shit is necessary) to stay in good terms with your ex - for your daughter's sake.
RNCTX 5y ago
My sympathies, I've been there. My daughter was a teenager, though, so not so bad. In a couple of years she was grown and on her own anyway. I know it won't make you feel any better, but when you get into your late 40s (assuming you're younger due to the age of your daughter) it will dawn on you that there's nothing you could have done differently, it's not anyone's fault. The cruel joke of life is that you don't know what to do until middle-age, and by then you have the briefest of moments to make the most of it because your physical / mental endurance is on borrowed time at that point. That sounds work-related, but the same things apply to people's social lives too. They don't recognize their compulsive behaviors and mistakes until they're old enough to know better. Some never do.
hyperpallium2 5y ago
> I would be willing to work on myself and expect nothing in return for the rest of my life if... Going by children of divorced parents, doing this anyway is the best thing you can do for your child, your spouse and your self.
bartvk 5y ago
I went through this, and it helped to vent (and ask advice) on r/divorce. You'll get honest answers if you ask for them. Also, I visited a therapist to guide me through the process. Regardless, I agree it's truly lose-lose right now -- it may very well change. You will make it through, because it's your daughter. Keep pressing on.

by shijie 5y ago

yawnr 5y ago

I’m so sorry you’re going through this. No matter what, you can still have a great life and be a great father, though. Maybe not as tidy, but still beautiful.

bitexploder 5y ago

I have stood by a couple of friends over the years that went through really tough divorces. When you have children and the divorce is mostly forced on you it is very tough. It does funny things, as the article says. I told my friend once, with more insight than I realized at the time, something like this: “this will break you or make you something of a philosopher.” To that end I like the Stoics. A lot is out of our control. Figure out what is in your control and do your best with them (Dichotomy of control). It’s a good starting point. Sorry your family must experience this.

tsol 5y ago
That reminds me of a Socrates quote "By all means marry. If you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher."
- bitexploder 5y ago
  Hah, you know, that is probably where that originated from in my brain. I read that quote a long time ago! Thank you :)

mrsmee89 5y ago

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I know the feeling well. Keeping my family together was my numero uno. It drove me mad. I put myself in incredibly vulnerable positions. The thought of my kids growing up without knowing the love that brought them into this world seemed unbearable. Looking back, while I was trying to keep my family together. She was trying to get the most out of our separation. Once I accepted that we weren't going to be a conventional family, I was able to see things with clarity. Accepting it is the hard part. If you're married to someone that has experienced being in an unconventional family then this will feel a lot more normal to them, which absolutely sucks. I really feel for you man.

lelanthran 5y ago

I've been through it, there's nothing you can do and if the mother is really out for blood she will use your child against you. Women get rights, men get obligations.

dang 5y ago
I appreciate that you've been through a difficult experience. HN users are welcome to share their experiences here. However, it's not ok to translate the emotion from the experience into flamewar comments. That's the problem with this one: you swerved into generic gender war rhetoric. That's harmful and not ok here. Of course it can be very difficult not to leap from painful experience to dramatic generalization. But it's the sort of thing we all have to work on in order to have HN be the kind of community we're trying for: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
dlsa 5y ago
When the child support ends a lot of power the state grants women to tear apart a mans life also evaporates. There's a possibility of a silver lining when child support ends. Divorced men need to remember that. Often times its the very start of men resuming a relationship with the children they've been blocked from seeing for all those years. If men comtemplating suicide could realise this and see it as the light at the end of the very dark tunnel then they might keep their faith in themselves and their future.
- Damogran6 5y ago
  I think that’s a truism that more people need to hear… “This, too, shall pass.” I was struggling with identity and responsibility when the kids were young and and extremely helpful person on a forum told me that my life would not forever be “swamped husband supporting family with young kids”…or even “parents in a faily of four”…sure I’m still a father of two kids, but they’re off doing their own things and my relationship with my wife is a LOT more like the one I had as a couple, before being parents.
watwut 5y ago
If men file for custody they get 50/50. Men who ask for full custody also statistically win more often. You are doing disservice to both kids and men when you tell them they cant have it.

WhiteWalker2021 5y ago

Sorry that you are going through this. Kids are super smart and can sense the energy very quickly. If mommy and daddy aren’t happy together, the kids will know, no matter how much you try to hide it. Also, if the parents aren’t getting along ..that isn’t a model of a good healthy relationship for the kids to experience either. Kids just need love and affection to grow into healthy and happy individuals. That love and care can exist even if the parents separated. Plus, you should choose yourself and your happiness too instead of compromising. Expecting nothing for the rest of your life isn’t a good value to pass on to your kids. Kids will like you and respect you more once they grow up if you choose yourself and your happiness! I totally understand that it’s important to give your level best to make it work and it’s an extremely tough decision to make, I am just trying to provide a different perspective. IMHO modeling healthy loving relationships is extremely important for the kids to witness as well. Wish you the best!

beachy 5y ago

It may sounds trite but I believe you will look back one day and realise this was just a step on the road, painful as it is now. I suggest you hang in there until then, and do your utmost (swallowing whatever shit is necessary) to stay in good terms with your ex - for your daughter's sake.

RNCTX 5y ago

My sympathies, I've been there. My daughter was a teenager, though, so not so bad. In a couple of years she was grown and on her own anyway. I know it won't make you feel any better, but when you get into your late 40s (assuming you're younger due to the age of your daughter) it will dawn on you that there's nothing you could have done differently, it's not anyone's fault. The cruel joke of life is that you don't know what to do until middle-age, and by then you have the briefest of moments to make the most of it because your physical / mental endurance is on borrowed time at that point. That sounds work-related, but the same things apply to people's social lives too. They don't recognize their compulsive behaviors and mistakes until they're old enough to know better. Some never do.

hyperpallium2 5y ago

> I would be willing to work on myself and expect nothing in return for the rest of my life if... Going by children of divorced parents, doing this anyway is the best thing you can do for your child, your spouse and your self.

bartvk 5y ago

I went through this, and it helped to vent (and ask advice) on r/divorce. You'll get honest answers if you ask for them. Also, I visited a therapist to guide me through the process. Regardless, I agree it's truly lose-lose right now -- it may very well change. You will make it through, because it's your daughter. Keep pressing on.