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That all sounds reasonable. Thanks for taking the time to explain these details. And sorry for thinking you were trolling. I definitely regret chiming in. I don

That all sounds reasonable. Thanks for taking the time to explain these details. And sorry for thinking you were trolling. I definitely regret chiming in. I don't like arguing on the internet, I genuinely haven't followed the case, and I was getting hit by more replies than I expected (that were leveling weird things against me based on the few words I said). My entire opinion on this event (not the court case), is essentially, "fuck this guy, and I'm not at all surprised that bad shit went down." I am from Los Angeles, and when I was a kid the Rodney King riots featured massive amounts of violence and destruction, and shopowners were defending their livelihoods with guns. If a white dude from Lancaster - who had a job "in the county" - decided to visit South Central and walk down the street prominently carrying a rifle, then I would have had the same opinion I just shared. That's it! That's all I was trying to share. He escalated an already bad situation. But yeah, if that "shooting shoplifters" video is that sketchy, I accept that. All I had heard was a headline with the judge saying it was irrelevant. And then immediately after that I saw another headline where the judge agreed with the defense that zooming in on a picture can create digital demons (did I get that right? :D).

Notorious_BLT 5y ago
Not getting into the rest of it, but the reason the "pinch to zoom" discussion is important is that the piece of video they are attempting to zoom in on is the one the prosecution's final gambit hinges on. As the self-defense evidence has stacked up, the prosecution has attempted to make the case that Rittenhouse provoked Rosenbaum's attack by pointing his gun at him. Despite the pile of video evidence available of the evening, no other evidence or testimony corroborates this claim, and in the (allegedly critical) video evidence they want to zoom in on, Rittenhouse is about 15 pixels tall. In that scenario, the specifics of how zooming will affect the video are pretty critical. There's another discussion to be had about wether the provocation element was introduced in good faith, or as an attempt to allow the jury to introduce their own opinions on wether his presence or his open carry were inherently "provocation", as well, which is thought to be the reason the defense has fought so strongly against the video being permitted (As the video is the only way the prosecution was allowed to introduce the concept of provocation into the jury instructions at all).
ALittleLight 5y ago
Someone's life is on the line. I don't think it's appropriate to hear a few random things about the case and then assert your conclusions. Even more important than an individual's life is the public's faith in the systems that make up our country. The Justice system and the media largely work because people believe in them. If you think the Justice system is unjust, you don't trust police or prosecutors or judges - that results in places where people settle things for themselves or for their tribe rather than relying on the courts. It results, in other words, in internecine violence. The media too is important to have faith in. When it's working well the media calls attention to parts of society that aren't working well so we can repair or replace them. But if people don't trust the media then we won't come to know or believe problematic things are problems. I see, with this trial, which I have been following, an instance where the media is incorrectly attacking a court that seems to be functioning reasonably. I see commentators on social media turning that flywheel too - feeding the unjustified attacks on the court. I think the consequences of this are going to be damage to faith in the media and in the courts. That's bad. One way to reduce the badness is to stop making unsupported hyperbolic claims. If you don't know what you're talking about, find out, or don't talk. Regarding the judge and zooming in, I'm not certain which moment you are referring to. There was a moment at the trial where the prosecutor wanted to use an iPad to "pinch to zoom" on some video and the defense objected saying that Apple algorithms might "enhance" the video by adding information that wasn't there. The judge determined that the prosecutor needed to get an expert to testify that Apple's "pinch to zoom" does not add data. I believe the ultimate resolution was that they used a PC instead and zoomed in on that. It sounds a little silly to argue over pinch to zoom, but AI assisted super resolution algorithms do exist. To my knowledge they aren't used in Apple devices - but I don't know why it's a problem to have an expert clarify this or to use a different device that everyone is more comfortable with.
- ryantgtg 5y ago
  Again, I wasn't commenting on _the case_, but on the topic of this particular thread, which was about news coverage of _the event_ (not the continuing news coverage, but the initial "here are the immediate facts we know"). And that the information I received from that lead me to reach some opinions on Kyle's overall wisdom and that a bad outcome of some sort is not surprising (which has nothing to do with "guilt"). And I still think you're conflating the "claims" I've made with claims/opinions about the court case. It's not impossible to separate the two, but I think this isn't the medium for it. I know that my opinion of the actual case does not matter, but for the sake of clarification I'll say that I have a decent amount of trust in the system and I hope/expect a fair outcome based on the evidence. And I also trust you, as someone who has followed the case and taken the time to respond to me in a clear manner. I agree with everything you said about the media.

Notorious_BLT 5y ago

Not getting into the rest of it, but the reason the "pinch to zoom" discussion is important is that the piece of video they are attempting to zoom in on is the one the prosecution's final gambit hinges on. As the self-defense evidence has stacked up, the prosecution has attempted to make the case that Rittenhouse provoked Rosenbaum's attack by pointing his gun at him. Despite the pile of video evidence available of the evening, no other evidence or testimony corroborates this claim, and in the (allegedly critical) video evidence they want to zoom in on, Rittenhouse is about 15 pixels tall. In that scenario, the specifics of how zooming will affect the video are pretty critical. There's another discussion to be had about wether the provocation element was introduced in good faith, or as an attempt to allow the jury to introduce their own opinions on wether his presence or his open carry were inherently "provocation", as well, which is thought to be the reason the defense has fought so strongly against the video being permitted (As the video is the only way the prosecution was allowed to introduce the concept of provocation into the jury instructions at all).

ALittleLight 5y ago

Someone's life is on the line. I don't think it's appropriate to hear a few random things about the case and then assert your conclusions. Even more important than an individual's life is the public's faith in the systems that make up our country. The Justice system and the media largely work because people believe in them. If you think the Justice system is unjust, you don't trust police or prosecutors or judges - that results in places where people settle things for themselves or for their tribe rather than relying on the courts. It results, in other words, in internecine violence. The media too is important to have faith in. When it's working well the media calls attention to parts of society that aren't working well so we can repair or replace them. But if people don't trust the media then we won't come to know or believe problematic things are problems. I see, with this trial, which I have been following, an instance where the media is incorrectly attacking a court that seems to be functioning reasonably. I see commentators on social media turning that flywheel too - feeding the unjustified attacks on the court. I think the consequences of this are going to be damage to faith in the media and in the courts. That's bad. One way to reduce the badness is to stop making unsupported hyperbolic claims. If you don't know what you're talking about, find out, or don't talk. Regarding the judge and zooming in, I'm not certain which moment you are referring to. There was a moment at the trial where the prosecutor wanted to use an iPad to "pinch to zoom" on some video and the defense objected saying that Apple algorithms might "enhance" the video by adding information that wasn't there. The judge determined that the prosecutor needed to get an expert to testify that Apple's "pinch to zoom" does not add data. I believe the ultimate resolution was that they used a PC instead and zoomed in on that. It sounds a little silly to argue over pinch to zoom, but AI assisted super resolution algorithms do exist. To my knowledge they aren't used in Apple devices - but I don't know why it's a problem to have an expert clarify this or to use a different device that everyone is more comfortable with.

ryantgtg 5y ago
Again, I wasn't commenting on _the case_, but on the topic of this particular thread, which was about news coverage of _the event_ (not the continuing news coverage, but the initial "here are the immediate facts we know"). And that the information I received from that lead me to reach some opinions on Kyle's overall wisdom and that a bad outcome of some sort is not surprising (which has nothing to do with "guilt"). And I still think you're conflating the "claims" I've made with claims/opinions about the court case. It's not impossible to separate the two, but I think this isn't the medium for it. I know that my opinion of the actual case does not matter, but for the sake of clarification I'll say that I have a decent amount of trust in the system and I hope/expect a fair outcome based on the evidence. And I also trust you, as someone who has followed the case and taken the time to respond to me in a clear manner. I agree with everything you said about the media.