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> I don't think I've seen a single hire out of a bootcamp work out in the end. Except a few cases where the person actually came from a STEM degree from a good

> I don't think I've seen a single hire out of a bootcamp work out in the end. Except a few cases where the person actually came from a STEM degree from a good school (and more crucially, already had some exposure to programming during the degree) but it's unclear to me that they actually needed the bootcamp and not just a good primer on modern software development and something like the Missing Semester [2] or a few classes at their school covering software engineering. What do you prescribe for the person who has no interest in going to college, then? Not everyone is going to have the money, or the desire, to spend four years at MIT or Stanford or anywhere in-between, above, or below. What fundamentals does a relatively smart and tech savvy person need in order to go from zero to 60 and get a job developing software? Not every person is going to work at a FAANG, and even then, lots of the developers at FAANGs don't even need top-tier college degrees in software engineering to do what they're asked to do. People are clamoring for a middle-ground solution that can be completed in 1-2 years and provides enough of a basis for someone to hit the ground running. If bootcamps aren't the solution, what could be? Seems like industry should be trying to answer this question.

culopatin 5y ago
You don’t need to go to MIT or Stanford… assuming you’d get in. Boot camps are extremely expensive per hour. Some are 12k! I can go to school for 12 terms at 9 credits per term with that money. It’s almost all the credits you need for a bachelor. Yes it’s a cheap in state school, not MIT, but it’s easier to sell a “Bachelor degree” than “did a boot camp” no matter where they come from when trying to get your foot in the door. Now time is a different thing, but I don’t know if dumping 12k in a bootcamp gets you there in better shape than quitting your job and building your own plan of study.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  > Yes it’s a cheap in state school, not MIT UW and UC Berkley want to have a word with you!
908B64B197 5y ago
> What do you prescribe for the person who has no interest in going to college, then? Getting advice from their self-taught doctor or lawyer probably.
- riversflow 5y ago
  Please don't do this, it's literally the second sentence of the rules. >Be kind. Don't be snarky. None the less, my experience with both medicine and the law is that unless you are quite wealthy, you are best off learning the stuff that applies to you (whether directly or indirectly) and then using lawyers and doctors for things that you either can't handle yourself or would be much better off having someone else do, and basically tell them precisely what to do. I particularly find doctors to be a complete joke, as I've only ever got any use at all from specialists, and think its infuriating that we require prescriptions for most drugs.
  - reducesuffering 5y ago
    I agree. First time consulting a tax lawyer, I was quite surprised that they doubled down on being wrong about an aspect of tax law that I investigated for 30 minutes.
    - 908B64B197 5y ago
      That was from a licensed professional, imagine someone self taught! Seriously, there's a reason lawyer's compensation is highly bimodal.
killingtime74 5y ago
If it helps I was a lawyer and did a masters in 1-2 years to become a programmer. I had 0 background in STEM. I'm in Australia though so it's actually cheaper than a boot camp. Can't Americans do associate degrees at community college? At least that's accredited

culopatin 5y ago

You don’t need to go to MIT or Stanford… assuming you’d get in. Boot camps are extremely expensive per hour. Some are 12k! I can go to school for 12 terms at 9 credits per term with that money. It’s almost all the credits you need for a bachelor. Yes it’s a cheap in state school, not MIT, but it’s easier to sell a “Bachelor degree” than “did a boot camp” no matter where they come from when trying to get your foot in the door. Now time is a different thing, but I don’t know if dumping 12k in a bootcamp gets you there in better shape than quitting your job and building your own plan of study.

908B64B197 5y ago
> Yes it’s a cheap in state school, not MIT UW and UC Berkley want to have a word with you!

908B64B197 5y ago

> What do you prescribe for the person who has no interest in going to college, then? Getting advice from their self-taught doctor or lawyer probably.

riversflow 5y ago
Please don't do this, it's literally the second sentence of the rules. >Be kind. Don't be snarky. None the less, my experience with both medicine and the law is that unless you are quite wealthy, you are best off learning the stuff that applies to you (whether directly or indirectly) and then using lawyers and doctors for things that you either can't handle yourself or would be much better off having someone else do, and basically tell them precisely what to do. I particularly find doctors to be a complete joke, as I've only ever got any use at all from specialists, and think its infuriating that we require prescriptions for most drugs.
- reducesuffering 5y ago
  I agree. First time consulting a tax lawyer, I was quite surprised that they doubled down on being wrong about an aspect of tax law that I investigated for 30 minutes.
  - 908B64B197 5y ago
    That was from a licensed professional, imagine someone self taught! Seriously, there's a reason lawyer's compensation is highly bimodal.

killingtime74 5y ago

If it helps I was a lawyer and did a masters in 1-2 years to become a programmer. I had 0 background in STEM. I'm in Australia though so it's actually cheaper than a boot camp. Can't Americans do associate degrees at community college? At least that's accredited