5 ms·

The most popular truck in the US is the ford f150 which has a 26 gallon tank. The fill rate of gas stations is 10 gallons a minute in the USA (by law - they are

by jjcon 5y ago

The most popular truck in the US is the ford f150 which has a 26 gallon tank. The fill rate of gas stations is 10 gallons a minute in the USA (by law - they are capable of much faster fill rates). Even when only looking at trucks we are talking less than a 3 minute fill time for the vast majority of trucks. https://www.edmunds.com/ford/f-150/2021/features-specs/ https://www.edmunds.com/ford/f-150/2021/features-specs/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_pump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_pump

masklinn 5y ago
> The fill rate of gas stations is 10 gallons a minute in the USA (by law - they are capable of much faster fill rates). Surely there are “trucker pumps” in the US as well and 18-wheelers don’t have to fill at 10 gal? IIRC in Europe standard flow is 40L/mn (about the same as the US’ 10 gal) but high-flow pumps can to up to 200 or so (50 gal / mn).
- jjcon 5y ago
  Yes there are trucker pumps in the USA and those have different fill rates - 10 gallons is just the consumer pump rate
vel0city 5y ago
The fill rate of regular gas stations in the US is up to 10 gallons a minute. They're not going around and slapping fines if your pump is only pumping at 9 gallons per minute. I'm pretty certain most pumps around me aren't going exactly 10 gallons per minute, I'm often waiting 2+ minutes for 16 gallons of gas, but not every time.
0des 5y ago
An F150 is not what was being discussed, nor was 'the average american truck'. Generally in areas like this where the size is for the sake of utility and workload capacity, Super Duty (F250 and above) is the standard. You are not towing livestock or machinery with an F150 typically, or with any practicality. Just in the vicinity where I live, looking out my door, F350 is a common choice, with King Ranch being the preferred trim line due to its towing capacity.
userbinator 5y ago
Gasoline has an energy content of ~120MJ/gallon (sources online seem to vary from 115 to 130) so that's an energy delivery rate of 1200MJ/min or 20MJ/s. 1W = 1J/s so that's 20MW or 20 million watts of power flowing through the filler hose that a gasoline vehicle is effectively being "recharged" at. No EV charging standard I know of even approaches 1MW.
- SigmundA 5y ago
  Gasoline is burned at about 30-40% efficiency in cars while charging a battery is above 90%, probably over 95% (after the charger losses, that is whats going across the cable into car). So with a gas pump your looking at more like 7-8MW equivalent. Even then EV's are more efficient at spending the energy with regenerative braking and no idle losses etc. which is why you 100+MPGe. So your probably closer to 3-4MW to get equivalent charge times as filling a normal car gas tank at like 2-3 minutes for similar range. HPCVC charging spec is being worked on for 3 megawatts but its really targeted for charging large vehicles like Semi's but I would imagine that would trickle down to normal cars at some point if the issues of charging a battery that fast can be worked out.
- vel0city 5y ago
  Truly shows the massive amount of inefficiency of an ICE engine. My EV uses ~1MJ/mi (~3mi/kWh) while my ICE uses ~6MJ/mi (20mpg). The ICE 6x the energy cost to move a vehicle about the same mass, 4,400lbs (EV) to 4,200lbs (ICE)
- akomtu 5y ago
  EVs are optimized for oxygen free environments: Moon, Mars and so on. Gasoline trucks are optimized for Earth with 20℅ oxygen in the air. Perhaps the solution for EV chargers is a special fuel that burns with oxygen and releases electricity. And it shouldn't have C in it, only H, N and O. I guess, its also allowed to use rare earth catalyzers.
  - leoedin 5y ago
    Ammonia could be an interesting fuel for vehicles (easy to synthesise from electricity, quite energy dense). It's a bit toxic though (probably manageable) and the round trip efficiency of synthesized ammonia used in a fuel cell or internal combustion engine must be really low. It would only make sense if we had huge amounts of surplus energy.

by jjcon 5y ago

masklinn 5y ago

> The fill rate of gas stations is 10 gallons a minute in the USA (by law - they are capable of much faster fill rates). Surely there are “trucker pumps” in the US as well and 18-wheelers don’t have to fill at 10 gal? IIRC in Europe standard flow is 40L/mn (about the same as the US’ 10 gal) but high-flow pumps can to up to 200 or so (50 gal / mn).

jjcon 5y ago
Yes there are trucker pumps in the USA and those have different fill rates - 10 gallons is just the consumer pump rate

vel0city 5y ago

The fill rate of regular gas stations in the US is up to 10 gallons a minute. They're not going around and slapping fines if your pump is only pumping at 9 gallons per minute. I'm pretty certain most pumps around me aren't going exactly 10 gallons per minute, I'm often waiting 2+ minutes for 16 gallons of gas, but not every time.

0des 5y ago

An F150 is not what was being discussed, nor was 'the average american truck'. Generally in areas like this where the size is for the sake of utility and workload capacity, Super Duty (F250 and above) is the standard. You are not towing livestock or machinery with an F150 typically, or with any practicality. Just in the vicinity where I live, looking out my door, F350 is a common choice, with King Ranch being the preferred trim line due to its towing capacity.

userbinator 5y ago

Gasoline has an energy content of ~120MJ/gallon (sources online seem to vary from 115 to 130) so that's an energy delivery rate of 1200MJ/min or 20MJ/s. 1W = 1J/s so that's 20MW or 20 million watts of power flowing through the filler hose that a gasoline vehicle is effectively being "recharged" at. No EV charging standard I know of even approaches 1MW.

SigmundA 5y ago
Gasoline is burned at about 30-40% efficiency in cars while charging a battery is above 90%, probably over 95% (after the charger losses, that is whats going across the cable into car). So with a gas pump your looking at more like 7-8MW equivalent. Even then EV's are more efficient at spending the energy with regenerative braking and no idle losses etc. which is why you 100+MPGe. So your probably closer to 3-4MW to get equivalent charge times as filling a normal car gas tank at like 2-3 minutes for similar range. HPCVC charging spec is being worked on for 3 megawatts but its really targeted for charging large vehicles like Semi's but I would imagine that would trickle down to normal cars at some point if the issues of charging a battery that fast can be worked out.
vel0city 5y ago
Truly shows the massive amount of inefficiency of an ICE engine. My EV uses ~1MJ/mi (~3mi/kWh) while my ICE uses ~6MJ/mi (20mpg). The ICE 6x the energy cost to move a vehicle about the same mass, 4,400lbs (EV) to 4,200lbs (ICE)
akomtu 5y ago
EVs are optimized for oxygen free environments: Moon, Mars and so on. Gasoline trucks are optimized for Earth with 20℅ oxygen in the air. Perhaps the solution for EV chargers is a special fuel that burns with oxygen and releases electricity. And it shouldn't have C in it, only H, N and O. I guess, its also allowed to use rare earth catalyzers.
- leoedin 5y ago
  Ammonia could be an interesting fuel for vehicles (easy to synthesise from electricity, quite energy dense). It's a bit toxic though (probably manageable) and the round trip efficiency of synthesized ammonia used in a fuel cell or internal combustion engine must be really low. It would only make sense if we had huge amounts of surplus energy.