6 ms·

I found the focus on first class passengers quite interesting. There are guidelines along the lines of "no provision to be made of toilets if there are no first

I found the focus on first class passengers quite interesting. There are guidelines along the lines of "no provision to be made of toilets if there are no first class passengers", "make sure to have separate waiting rooms for different classes of passengers".. The British era recommendations hadn't been removed by 1967 at least.

dilawar 5y ago
British class systems and Indian caste system worked together very well.
- throwawayy37r3 5y ago
  There is a crucial difference. If you become a great inventor or by luck if one becomes wealthy, one can move over the class system with the British system. Its not the case with the indian caste system, it is all about privilege by birth.
  - pfiwxruxta 5y ago
    Varna is decided by karma, not birth. Dalits can and do become brahmins by following diets, rituals and become temple priests. Brahmins also have become kshatriyas by picking up weapons of war. [1] https://indianexpress.com/article/india/kerala-dalit-priests-government-temples-any-hindu-can-be-a-brahmin-4890673/ https://indianexpress.com/article/india/kerala-dalit-priests... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmakshatriya https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmakshatriya
    - throwawayy37r3 5y ago
      Vedic scriptures is very clear (rig veda) and prohibits any move. Even "Richard Stallman" (RMS) understands this https://stallman.org/articles/ramayana.html https://stallman.org/articles/ramayana.html which native indian people act like they don't understand. I can site recent and better example that happened in TamilNadu (https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/tamil-nadu-dmk-temples-appointment-non-brahmin-priests-subramanian-swamy-1842003-2021-08-17 https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/tamil-nadu-dmk-temples...). 120 or so priests were appointed who were not from priest families. This is not allowed by the vedas(the hindu book). It is because government intervened and fought against the temples decisions. There is some progressive things happening in these states. Thanks to Periyar.
      - pfiwxruxta 5y ago
        You are proving my point. The fact that there was no murderous mobs rampaging against the TN government move should tell you majority's support for reforms. Compare that to a SC killed in Delhi for allegedly "disrespecting the holy book", or the Bangladesh riots for the same reason a few days ago.
- naruvimama 5y ago
  The word "caste" is derived from the Portuguese castas. The European class system is essentially what transformed into the Indian caste system. Not to mean there was no social hierarchy in India, but the rigid birth based system we have today is the handiwork of the British social engineering. Especially interesting is the population survey which labeled population with a caste, the power to label someone X lay with the enumerator rather than the person being enumerated self identifying with a caste.
  - rajup 5y ago
    Not sure why you're being downvoted, I thought this was common knowledge.
  - neximo64 5y ago
    Do you have evidence for this? The caste system's origins pre dates the British arrival afaik
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - petilon 5y ago
      See first two paras in wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_India Excerpt: The British Raj furthered this development, making rigid caste organisation a central mechanism of administration. Between 1860 and 1920, the British formulated the caste system into their system of governance, granting administrative jobs and senior appointments only to Christians and people belonging to certain castes.
      - basicplus2 5y ago
        they incorporated a caste system (that was already operating) into a central mechanism of administration
        5y ago
belltaco 5y ago
How is that different from business vs economy class on airlines in the west?
- Jensson 5y ago
  Economy class doesn't get toilets? Local rails doesn't provide toilets, but long travel rails always do no matter what class you use.
  - belltaco 5y ago
    > but long travel rails always do no matter what class you use Same in India. I was referring to the other perks that the GP post mentioned. I cannot find the reference to 'only first class passengers get toilets' in the document. In fact the phrase 'first class' itself has zero hits, there's one hit for 'upper class' which is unrelated. Perhaps they meant toilets adjacent to waiting rooms for first class at the station so they don't have to walk to the general ones.

dilawar 5y ago

British class systems and Indian caste system worked together very well.

throwawayy37r3 5y ago
There is a crucial difference. If you become a great inventor or by luck if one becomes wealthy, one can move over the class system with the British system. Its not the case with the indian caste system, it is all about privilege by birth.
- pfiwxruxta 5y ago
  Varna is decided by karma, not birth. Dalits can and do become brahmins by following diets, rituals and become temple priests. Brahmins also have become kshatriyas by picking up weapons of war. [1] https://indianexpress.com/article/india/kerala-dalit-priests-government-temples-any-hindu-can-be-a-brahmin-4890673/ https://indianexpress.com/article/india/kerala-dalit-priests... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmakshatriya https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmakshatriya
  - throwawayy37r3 5y ago
    Vedic scriptures is very clear (rig veda) and prohibits any move. Even "Richard Stallman" (RMS) understands this https://stallman.org/articles/ramayana.html https://stallman.org/articles/ramayana.html which native indian people act like they don't understand. I can site recent and better example that happened in TamilNadu (https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/tamil-nadu-dmk-temples-appointment-non-brahmin-priests-subramanian-swamy-1842003-2021-08-17 https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/tamil-nadu-dmk-temples...). 120 or so priests were appointed who were not from priest families. This is not allowed by the vedas(the hindu book). It is because government intervened and fought against the temples decisions. There is some progressive things happening in these states. Thanks to Periyar.
    - pfiwxruxta 5y ago
      You are proving my point. The fact that there was no murderous mobs rampaging against the TN government move should tell you majority's support for reforms. Compare that to a SC killed in Delhi for allegedly "disrespecting the holy book", or the Bangladesh riots for the same reason a few days ago.
naruvimama 5y ago
The word "caste" is derived from the Portuguese castas. The European class system is essentially what transformed into the Indian caste system. Not to mean there was no social hierarchy in India, but the rigid birth based system we have today is the handiwork of the British social engineering. Especially interesting is the population survey which labeled population with a caste, the power to label someone X lay with the enumerator rather than the person being enumerated self identifying with a caste.
- rajup 5y ago
  Not sure why you're being downvoted, I thought this was common knowledge.
- neximo64 5y ago
  Do you have evidence for this? The caste system's origins pre dates the British arrival afaik
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - petilon 5y ago
    See first two paras in wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_India Excerpt: The British Raj furthered this development, making rigid caste organisation a central mechanism of administration. Between 1860 and 1920, the British formulated the caste system into their system of governance, granting administrative jobs and senior appointments only to Christians and people belonging to certain castes.
    - basicplus2 5y ago
      they incorporated a caste system (that was already operating) into a central mechanism of administration
      - 5y ago

belltaco 5y ago

How is that different from business vs economy class on airlines in the west?

Jensson 5y ago
Economy class doesn't get toilets? Local rails doesn't provide toilets, but long travel rails always do no matter what class you use.
- belltaco 5y ago
  > but long travel rails always do no matter what class you use Same in India. I was referring to the other perks that the GP post mentioned. I cannot find the reference to 'only first class passengers get toilets' in the document. In fact the phrase 'first class' itself has zero hits, there's one hit for 'upper class' which is unrelated. Perhaps they meant toilets adjacent to waiting rooms for first class at the station so they don't have to walk to the general ones.