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There is no "civilized world". Not anymore. Trumpism settled that. There's the EU, and the rest of the world is failed states.
by Bud 5y ago
There is no "civilized world". Not anymore. Trumpism settled that.
There's the EU, and the rest of the world is failed states.
- CamperBob2 5y agoEh, seems a bit dramatic. We had our Trump, the Soviets had their Stalin, China had their Mao, the EU had their Hitler and their Mussolini and their Petain and ... Especially after the events of the 20th century, there's not much moral high ground left at the international level. Trump certainly sucks, but he's too incompetent to be genuinely dangerous. Strictly bush-league compared to some of the "enlightened" European leaders we've seen.
- selfhoster11 5y agoTrump was decidedly 21st century, and Hitler did not preside over a voluntarily united Europe. He conquered it by force, from a single European country.
- HWR_14 5y agoIn fairness, the EU has some crazies running countries. Like Hungry and Poland are moving towards some pretty authoritarian leadership and Britain was ruled by Boris Johnson (who has been compared to a UK Trump) while they were in the EU (and he heralded them out of the EU.) All the countries involved are smaller so the absolute impact over people's lives will be smaller. But there are also crazies. Meanwhile, the French and German authoritarians seem to be getting like 20% of the vote and climbing.
- bobthechef 5y agoAre you comparing Trump to Stalin and Mao? (Also, there was no EU when Hitler, Mussolini, etc. were around, and the EU is not a monolithic bloc with a meaningful identity today either.)
- ClumsyPilot 5y agoI think credit must be given to hundreds of people and institutions that have limited and restricted more of trump's crazy ideas, often at the cost of their careers. Who knows what he would do if he was an absolute dictator. Power corrupts and messes with your head.
- CamperBob2 5y agoIf you'll (re-)read the post, you'll find that a key point is that Trump is not in their league at all. He would probably be better compared to Berlusconi. Trump won't be the last of his breed, of course. (Also, there was no EU when Hitler, Mussolini, etc. were around, and the EU is not a monolithic bloc with a meaningful identity today either.) Given the relatively short time that's elapsed since the last world war started by Europeans, I think this amounts to a special pleading.
- ben_w 5y agoEh, given what the EU is and isn’t, I think associating the EU with WW2 dictators is akin to associating Mercosur with Juan María Bordaberry. Continent of Europe, sure, I agree: even within EU member states, Poland and Hungary are currently worrying me. It’s just that painting the border around the EU feels like the wrong level of distinction for me, given the EU isn’t really a country, it just sometimes has country-like power delegated to it by its members. (And yes, this also applies upthread to the attempt to divide the world into [civilised <=> EU] => [!EU <=> !civilised]).
- eecc 5y agoAh, Berlusconi… Mussolini… I have this vaguely whimsical conjecture (that fills me of shame, I’m myself Italian) that Italy is a country of “forerunners”. If you look back, many of the behaviors and characters that animated our tormented history have become models for followers in other countries: the Roman Empire, Mussolini, Berlusconi…
- CamperBob2 5y agoGood point there. We tend to forget that Hitler took notes from Mussolini, and not the other way around.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- EdwardDiego 5y ago/cries in New Zealander.