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I suggest not ever using the phrase “assault rifle” because you’ll just get responses where people say “it’s not an assault rifle” and they’ll think they actual

I suggest not ever using the phrase “assault rifle” because you’ll just get responses where people say “it’s not an assault rifle” and they’ll think they actually won an argument.

HideousKojima 5y ago
As opposed to falsely claiming he had an assault rifle and thinking that somehow strengthens the emotional/moral impact of an argument?
- ryantgtg 5y ago
  You are either being intentionally disingenuous or you are so deep in this that you don’t understand how other people think. To a lot of people, giant military-looking gun = assault rifle. And saying “actually it’s technically not an assault rifle” makes absolutely no difference. It’s not always a false claim; rather it’s a minor, irrelevant detail. Swatting it down doesn’t matter, except to the person swatting it down.
  - HideousKojima 5y ago
    >To a lot of people, giant military-looking gun = assault rifle. Yes, exactly my point. It's cosmetically scary and calling it an assault rifle makes the minds of many of those hearing it jump to a fear-based response. When in reality an AR-15 is no more or less deadly than any other semiautomatic rifle in the same caliber. Slapping black plastic on a gun may make it look "scarier" to the uninformed, but it doesn't change the threat that Kyle did or did not pose by being there armed.
    - ryantgtg 5y ago
      Hey, that's my point, too! In this particular event, everyone aside from him was uninformed. Walking through the streets of a riot (I won't say "brandishing" but...) carrying what LOOKS to be a big scary gun is sending a very strong message to other people around him. A lot of people equate that gun with "active shooter" and "paramilitary."
      - HideousKojima 5y ago
        Then they should learn to change their emotional response to it, or seek to repeal the 2nd Amendment that allows people to open carry. Their emotional response is on them.
        ryantgtg 5y ago
        I disagree given that it’s impossible to know the intentions of the gun wielder, and there is lots of precedent for people who look just like that (white man carrying an AR15) being a mass shooter. If I was marching around (legally) carrying a big ass knife, I’d think I’d also possess enough awareness to realize that some folks might be uncertain of my intentions.
  - Eelongate 5y ago
    "Machine gun? Not a machine gun? What's the difference?" You may not appreciate it, but there is a substantial difference, not just practically but legally. If you're ignorant of that difference, that's fine. Everybody is mistaken or ignorant some of the time. We're all human after all. But if you know the difference and choose to use the wrong terminology anyway, then you are being deliberately deceptive. Either way, it warrants a correction.
    - detaro 5y ago
      Where's the legal definition of "assault rifle" == "machine gun" from?
      - hasdf 5y ago
        the phrase comes from the unique German WW2 weapon "Sturmgewehr 44" (literally Assault Rifle 44). It was the first example of the Assault Rifle weapon type with the defining characteristics being an intermediate cartridge (between pistol round and rifle round) that allows controllable automatic fire at engagement ranges further than submachine guns. Most AR15s cannot be considered 'Assault Rifles' as although they are chambered in an intermediate cartridge, they are for the most part semi-automatic and not capable of automatic fire. Note that 'Assault Rifle' does not seem to be a ATF defined term, they always use the term Machine Gun for automatic weapons. The term "Assault Rifle" is more commonly associate d with anti-gun organizations as it has become a emotionally charged word
        Jensson 5y ago
        > The term "Assault Rifle" is more commonly associate d with anti-gun organizations as it has become a emotionally charged word Every game I've played where it is relevant uses the "Assault Rifle" term, and way more young people are familiar with game definitions than anything else. Here is roughly how weapons are defined in games: Submachine gun - Automatic pistol with large clip. Rifle - Single shot long barrel higher calibre weapon Battle Rifle - Burst fire rifle with large clip Assault Rifle - Automatic fire rifle with large clip Machine gun - Belt fed automatic fire rifle Edit: Nothing legal about the above, of course, just noting what the general population would associate with each term. And you can understand why people would be worried about automatic fire high calibre weapons. They aren't useful for anything other than to kill lots of people.
  - post_from_work 5y ago
    >>>To a lot of people, giant military-looking gun = assault rifle. >>>It’s not always a false claim; Words have meaning and details matter, especially when discussing legalities. It absolutely is always a false claim. To a lot of people, any big Navy ship that is not an aircraft carrier is "a battleship". To a lot of people, anybody banging away on a keyboard from the command line = "hacking". That doesn't make either claim true. Specificity and clarity are important. To mutually work through a problem set we need commonly-understood definitions, and the lexicon thankfully isn't limited to the simplistic understanding of the uninformed masses.
betwixthewires 5y ago
The word "assault rifle" has a definition, and when you call something that isn't an assault rifle an assault rifle as pertinent to your point and someone points out that it is not an assault rifle and therefore your point is invalid, they have in fact actually won an argument.
- ryantgtg 5y ago
  I'm sorry you feel that way.

I suggest not ever using the phrase “assault rifle” because you’ll just get responses where people say “it’s not an assault rifle” and they’ll think they actually won an argument.

HideousKojima 5y ago

As opposed to falsely claiming he had an assault rifle and thinking that somehow strengthens the emotional/moral impact of an argument?

ryantgtg 5y ago
You are either being intentionally disingenuous or you are so deep in this that you don’t understand how other people think. To a lot of people, giant military-looking gun = assault rifle. And saying “actually it’s technically not an assault rifle” makes absolutely no difference. It’s not always a false claim; rather it’s a minor, irrelevant detail. Swatting it down doesn’t matter, except to the person swatting it down.
- HideousKojima 5y ago
  >To a lot of people, giant military-looking gun = assault rifle. Yes, exactly my point. It's cosmetically scary and calling it an assault rifle makes the minds of many of those hearing it jump to a fear-based response. When in reality an AR-15 is no more or less deadly than any other semiautomatic rifle in the same caliber. Slapping black plastic on a gun may make it look "scarier" to the uninformed, but it doesn't change the threat that Kyle did or did not pose by being there armed.
  - ryantgtg 5y ago
    Hey, that's my point, too! In this particular event, everyone aside from him was uninformed. Walking through the streets of a riot (I won't say "brandishing" but...) carrying what LOOKS to be a big scary gun is sending a very strong message to other people around him. A lot of people equate that gun with "active shooter" and "paramilitary."
    - HideousKojima 5y ago
      Then they should learn to change their emotional response to it, or seek to repeal the 2nd Amendment that allows people to open carry. Their emotional response is on them.
      - ryantgtg 5y ago
        I disagree given that it’s impossible to know the intentions of the gun wielder, and there is lots of precedent for people who look just like that (white man carrying an AR15) being a mass shooter. If I was marching around (legally) carrying a big ass knife, I’d think I’d also possess enough awareness to realize that some folks might be uncertain of my intentions.
- Eelongate 5y ago
  "Machine gun? Not a machine gun? What's the difference?" You may not appreciate it, but there is a substantial difference, not just practically but legally. If you're ignorant of that difference, that's fine. Everybody is mistaken or ignorant some of the time. We're all human after all. But if you know the difference and choose to use the wrong terminology anyway, then you are being deliberately deceptive. Either way, it warrants a correction.
  - detaro 5y ago
    Where's the legal definition of "assault rifle" == "machine gun" from?
    - hasdf 5y ago
      the phrase comes from the unique German WW2 weapon "Sturmgewehr 44" (literally Assault Rifle 44). It was the first example of the Assault Rifle weapon type with the defining characteristics being an intermediate cartridge (between pistol round and rifle round) that allows controllable automatic fire at engagement ranges further than submachine guns. Most AR15s cannot be considered 'Assault Rifles' as although they are chambered in an intermediate cartridge, they are for the most part semi-automatic and not capable of automatic fire. Note that 'Assault Rifle' does not seem to be a ATF defined term, they always use the term Machine Gun for automatic weapons. The term "Assault Rifle" is more commonly associate d with anti-gun organizations as it has become a emotionally charged word
      - Jensson 5y ago
        > The term "Assault Rifle" is more commonly associate d with anti-gun organizations as it has become a emotionally charged word Every game I've played where it is relevant uses the "Assault Rifle" term, and way more young people are familiar with game definitions than anything else. Here is roughly how weapons are defined in games: Submachine gun - Automatic pistol with large clip. Rifle - Single shot long barrel higher calibre weapon Battle Rifle - Burst fire rifle with large clip Assault Rifle - Automatic fire rifle with large clip Machine gun - Belt fed automatic fire rifle Edit: Nothing legal about the above, of course, just noting what the general population would associate with each term. And you can understand why people would be worried about automatic fire high calibre weapons. They aren't useful for anything other than to kill lots of people.
- post_from_work 5y ago
  >>>To a lot of people, giant military-looking gun = assault rifle. >>>It’s not always a false claim; Words have meaning and details matter, especially when discussing legalities. It absolutely is always a false claim. To a lot of people, any big Navy ship that is not an aircraft carrier is "a battleship". To a lot of people, anybody banging away on a keyboard from the command line = "hacking". That doesn't make either claim true. Specificity and clarity are important. To mutually work through a problem set we need commonly-understood definitions, and the lexicon thankfully isn't limited to the simplistic understanding of the uninformed masses.

betwixthewires 5y ago

The word "assault rifle" has a definition, and when you call something that isn't an assault rifle an assault rifle as pertinent to your point and someone points out that it is not an assault rifle and therefore your point is invalid, they have in fact actually won an argument.

ryantgtg 5y ago
I'm sorry you feel that way.