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Perhaps. My challenge probably lies in finding out what my requirements are, it sounds like. In the situation I’m dealing with presently, I don’t necessarily n

by dvtrn 5y ago

Perhaps. My challenge probably lies in finding out what my requirements are, it sounds like. In the situation I’m dealing with presently, I don’t necessarily need this stakeholder to take any action other than make a decision on two similar options with different outcomes only they have the business authorization to make. For my part, I’ve documented, and shared documentation with the stakeholder, and had multiple sessions with them about requirements and next steps to complete this project, and asked them repeatedly if there was anything that prevented us from moving to the next step. Each time the answer is no. By every measure I’ve tried so far, it seems there’s no question marks or missing inputs from me on actually executing the next phase of this work, and the stakeholder understands the options/risks/trade offs by their own admission… Yet when I ask “then what is your decision on these two options for the next step?”, we end up going back to questions if the previous requirements have been met-which we already found a consensus that they were and the stakeholder suggesting we aren’t ready until those are met. It feels…cyclical. —- a forced analogy: it’s like you and your friend are working together to build a custom bike, your friend knows a little about bikes, but asked you for help because you really know bikes, and after you finish putting the bike together, the last thing to do is wrap up the handle bars, so you ask your friend what color grip tape they want, but they start asking you if the tires have been inflated.

PaulHoule 5y ago
Unassisted, people have trouble with cycles. Cycles are why people are afraid to get lost in the wood at night. Theseus escaped the maze of the Minotaur because he had a tool to avoid cycles. You need to document cycles as soon as you notice them and be polite but firm and ready to have the same conversation over and over again, documents in hand, making it clear that there are a few difficult issues that aren't staying resolved. Sometimes you need a written and/or practiced explanation of something difficult that you or your customer have a hard time remembering. Sometimes the customer really wants things that are contradictory and that's a common situation, in the long term the contradiction is resolved, sometimes you might be in a "pick 2 out of 3 situation" and might be able to try a few different pairs of 2 you can live with. It is is one thing to be in a state of confusion that is tractless, but frequently there are a small number of persistent problems and those have to be kept on the surface.
verve_rat 5y ago
I know the relative power dynamic can complicate things... but, it sounds like you need to stand up for yourself more. Tell the stakeholder that no more work will be done until a decision is made. You have done your part, the stakeholder has the authority to make the decision so on their head be it. If that doesn't work then you have three options: escalate to their boss, live with it, or quit.
sharkbot 5y ago
My current approach to situations like these are based on “Never Split The Difference” by Chris Voss and “SPIN Selling” by Neil Rackham. For me, I’m trying to identify what the other party _really_ wants, rather than what they _say_ they want. All too often I’ve taken the other person at their word: “we want to reduce time to approval”, “we want all these features”, “we want to reduce operating expenses”. However, when time came to implement a plan to hit those goals, it turned out those weren’t the actual objectives. A combination of sales, negotiation, and an attempt to identify the actual underlying need (belonging, recognition, autonomy, etc) has increased the hit rate. But, at the end of the day, we’re monkeys wearing pants trying to squirt ideas at each other via flapping meat. Let’s just be amazed that communication between people can happen at all :)
mateo411 5y ago
It sounds like the stakeholder doesn't know what they want, which is why you are stuck in this Ground Hog day process of meetings. Is this a decision that could easily be reversed? If that's the case, then if a bad decision is made, well it could be reversed pretty quickly. If this is the case, then I would just try to gently recommend the option that seems right to you. You might even suggest to the stakeholder that it's their idea and give them credit for coming to a reasonable conclusion. You've solved the software engineering problem, now you need to solve the social engineering problem.

by dvtrn 5y ago

PaulHoule 5y ago

Unassisted, people have trouble with cycles. Cycles are why people are afraid to get lost in the wood at night. Theseus escaped the maze of the Minotaur because he had a tool to avoid cycles. You need to document cycles as soon as you notice them and be polite but firm and ready to have the same conversation over and over again, documents in hand, making it clear that there are a few difficult issues that aren't staying resolved. Sometimes you need a written and/or practiced explanation of something difficult that you or your customer have a hard time remembering. Sometimes the customer really wants things that are contradictory and that's a common situation, in the long term the contradiction is resolved, sometimes you might be in a "pick 2 out of 3 situation" and might be able to try a few different pairs of 2 you can live with. It is is one thing to be in a state of confusion that is tractless, but frequently there are a small number of persistent problems and those have to be kept on the surface.

verve_rat 5y ago

I know the relative power dynamic can complicate things... but, it sounds like you need to stand up for yourself more. Tell the stakeholder that no more work will be done until a decision is made. You have done your part, the stakeholder has the authority to make the decision so on their head be it. If that doesn't work then you have three options: escalate to their boss, live with it, or quit.

sharkbot 5y ago

My current approach to situations like these are based on “Never Split The Difference” by Chris Voss and “SPIN Selling” by Neil Rackham. For me, I’m trying to identify what the other party _really_ wants, rather than what they _say_ they want. All too often I’ve taken the other person at their word: “we want to reduce time to approval”, “we want all these features”, “we want to reduce operating expenses”. However, when time came to implement a plan to hit those goals, it turned out those weren’t the actual objectives. A combination of sales, negotiation, and an attempt to identify the actual underlying need (belonging, recognition, autonomy, etc) has increased the hit rate. But, at the end of the day, we’re monkeys wearing pants trying to squirt ideas at each other via flapping meat. Let’s just be amazed that communication between people can happen at all :)

mateo411 5y ago

It sounds like the stakeholder doesn't know what they want, which is why you are stuck in this Ground Hog day process of meetings. Is this a decision that could easily be reversed? If that's the case, then if a bad decision is made, well it could be reversed pretty quickly. If this is the case, then I would just try to gently recommend the option that seems right to you. You might even suggest to the stakeholder that it's their idea and give them credit for coming to a reasonable conclusion. You've solved the software engineering problem, now you need to solve the social engineering problem.