4 ms·

It's really strange to think that the American left (AOC, Bernie) are fighting for such radical concepts as social healthcare, free education and paid maternity

It's really strange to think that the American left (AOC, Bernie) are fighting for such radical concepts as social healthcare, free education and paid maternity leave. I'm from the UK, the most capitalist European country and we had all three until we regressed on university fees thanks to our wonderful Conservative party.

lucaspm98 5y ago
There's a reason for that. The majority of countries with these socialized services have suffered from the corruption, bureaucracy, and taxation innate with government control. This is with the notable exception of a few countries with vast natural resources providing an economic baseline, and likely more importantly a relatively small and homogenous population with similar needs and opinions.
- freeflight 5y ago
  > The majority of countries with these socialized services have suffered from the corruption, bureaucracy, and taxation innate with government control. The majority of these countries rank better on these metrics than the US does. > This is with the notable exception of a few countries with vast natural resources providing an economic baseline I can only think of one notable exception on that front, that being Norway with it's oil resources. > more importantly a relatively small and homogenous population with similar needs and opinions How exactly do you define "homogenous population" and why do you think "needs and opinions" are inherent to certain types of "population", which you apparently seem to use as a synonym for race?
  - lucaspm98 5y ago
    Scandinavian welfare system is only possible because Scandinavian countries are more or less small and homogeneous. Social stigma is huge part in making sure people do not freeload and do not abuse social safety nets. That social stigma will not work in big, diverse and marred by identity politics countries like the US or even Canada (in my opinion).
    - freeflight 5y ago
      > That social stigma will not work in big, diverse and marred by identity politics countries like the US or even Canada (in my opinion). The social system analogue to the US is not Canada, Canada's policies in that regard are way more resembling of European systems than the US's, that applies not only to welfare systems, but also crime and incarceration [0]. As such, Canada is very much an example of how at least part of these policies can also work in North America, even with its allegedly exceptional scale and diversity. [0] https://youtu.be/wtV5ev6813I https://youtu.be/wtV5ev6813I
- beaconstudios 5y ago
  The US is one of the wealthiest MEDC countries, and "homogeneous population" is just racist drivel.
  - maccolgan 5y ago
    If you can't understand why people would be more motivated for pay for socialized services when people who consume those services are more like themselves, you need to reflect on your worldview.
    - beaconstudios 5y ago
      Call me crazy, but I think that human beings are fundamentally the same and deserve basic dignity. I believe it is actually you who needs to justify people extending less empathy to people of a different race. That seems like racism to me, and I thought we were supposed to be trying to move past that.
  - lucaspm98 5y ago
    Scandinavian welfare system is only possible because Scandinavian countries are more or less small and homogeneous. Social stigma is huge part in making sure people do not freeload and do not abuse social safety nets. That social stigma will not work in big, diverse and marred by identity politics countries like the US or even Canada (in my opinion). Actually, cultural traits penetrate all aspects of their economic system not just welfare system. For example due to social norms business competition between two businesses may not be as adversarial as it is normally seen in the US, unions are not as adversarial in relation to corporations and corporations are not as adversarial toward unions, government bureaucrats are not as adversarial (and boneheaded) toward businesses as in the US and so on.
    - beaconstudios 5y ago
      Canada has socialised healthcare, so you just disproved your own point.
      - 5y ago
alibarber 5y ago
Tuition fees were introduced in 1998, under a Labour government. Sure, at a tenth of their current rate but still, under a different government.
- beaconstudios 5y ago
  Ah you're right it was Blair - in that case, I blame the other Conservative party; Blairite Labour.

lucaspm98 5y ago

There's a reason for that. The majority of countries with these socialized services have suffered from the corruption, bureaucracy, and taxation innate with government control. This is with the notable exception of a few countries with vast natural resources providing an economic baseline, and likely more importantly a relatively small and homogenous population with similar needs and opinions.

freeflight 5y ago
> The majority of countries with these socialized services have suffered from the corruption, bureaucracy, and taxation innate with government control. The majority of these countries rank better on these metrics than the US does. > This is with the notable exception of a few countries with vast natural resources providing an economic baseline I can only think of one notable exception on that front, that being Norway with it's oil resources. > more importantly a relatively small and homogenous population with similar needs and opinions How exactly do you define "homogenous population" and why do you think "needs and opinions" are inherent to certain types of "population", which you apparently seem to use as a synonym for race?
- lucaspm98 5y ago
  Scandinavian welfare system is only possible because Scandinavian countries are more or less small and homogeneous. Social stigma is huge part in making sure people do not freeload and do not abuse social safety nets. That social stigma will not work in big, diverse and marred by identity politics countries like the US or even Canada (in my opinion).
  - freeflight 5y ago
    > That social stigma will not work in big, diverse and marred by identity politics countries like the US or even Canada (in my opinion). The social system analogue to the US is not Canada, Canada's policies in that regard are way more resembling of European systems than the US's, that applies not only to welfare systems, but also crime and incarceration [0]. As such, Canada is very much an example of how at least part of these policies can also work in North America, even with its allegedly exceptional scale and diversity. [0] https://youtu.be/wtV5ev6813I https://youtu.be/wtV5ev6813I
beaconstudios 5y ago
The US is one of the wealthiest MEDC countries, and "homogeneous population" is just racist drivel.
- maccolgan 5y ago
  If you can't understand why people would be more motivated for pay for socialized services when people who consume those services are more like themselves, you need to reflect on your worldview.
  - beaconstudios 5y ago
    Call me crazy, but I think that human beings are fundamentally the same and deserve basic dignity. I believe it is actually you who needs to justify people extending less empathy to people of a different race. That seems like racism to me, and I thought we were supposed to be trying to move past that.
- lucaspm98 5y ago
  Scandinavian welfare system is only possible because Scandinavian countries are more or less small and homogeneous. Social stigma is huge part in making sure people do not freeload and do not abuse social safety nets. That social stigma will not work in big, diverse and marred by identity politics countries like the US or even Canada (in my opinion). Actually, cultural traits penetrate all aspects of their economic system not just welfare system. For example due to social norms business competition between two businesses may not be as adversarial as it is normally seen in the US, unions are not as adversarial in relation to corporations and corporations are not as adversarial toward unions, government bureaucrats are not as adversarial (and boneheaded) toward businesses as in the US and so on.
  - beaconstudios 5y ago
    Canada has socialised healthcare, so you just disproved your own point.
    - 5y ago

alibarber 5y ago

Tuition fees were introduced in 1998, under a Labour government. Sure, at a tenth of their current rate but still, under a different government.

beaconstudios 5y ago
Ah you're right it was Blair - in that case, I blame the other Conservative party; Blairite Labour.