4 ms·

Isn't cheaper turn the electricity into liquid hydrogen?! Hydrogen can be stored for months, delivered by car, tubes, ships, etc Do not have many losses acros

Isn't cheaper turn the electricity into liquid hydrogen?! Hydrogen can be stored for months, delivered by car, tubes, ships, etc Do not have many losses across long distances

_ph_ 5y ago
Not only are the hydrogen production facilities quite expensive, there is a huge loss in producing hydrogen from electricity and back. Also storage is expensive and has energy losses due to the compression work. And you need to transport the hydrogen over large distances. For the same amount of energy to be put into the Asian grid, you need at least 2-3x as many solar cells, if you go via hydrogen.
Mvandenbergh 5y ago
Electricity to hydrogen followed by conversion to liquid and cryogenic transport is about 65% lossy. That doesn't mean you would never do it given cheap enough input electricity but it's not the easy answer.
dukeyukey 5y ago
> Isn't cheaper turn the electricity into liquid hydrogen?! Creating hydrogen is about 80% efficient, so you do lose a fair bit in the process. > Hydrogen can be stored for months, delivered by car, tubes, ships, That's the thing about hydrogen, it's tricky to store for long periods of time. It leaks real easy. And liquid hydrogen isn't very dense, about 7% of that of water, so it's hard to ship it in bulk. And at the point you're piping it, well you may as well just pipe the electricity direct.
- BenjiWiebe 5y ago
  And if you do store it, it has a nasty tendency to weaken it's container.
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    That tendency is usually exaggerated. At LH2 temperature and atmospheric pressure, it is not a problem. You get such troubles storing H2 at high pressure and temperature.
- labawi 5y ago
  > isn't very dense, about 7% of that of water That's not a good metric. Hydrogen has about 2-3x energy density per mass vs carbon fuels. H₂ is about 120MJ/kg, while carbon fuels are about 35-55 MJ/kg, gasoline/diesel is 45 MJ/kg. Per volume, gasoline - 34 MJ/l, liquid methane 22 MJ/l, liquid hydrogen 8.5 MJ/l. Much smaller, but not laughable 7% (14x).
ZeroGravitas 5y ago
Chile has big plans to export green hydrogen and green ammonia as well as doing this. Presumably once you ship some amount to the same location, the cable starts to make sense.

Isn't cheaper turn the electricity into liquid hydrogen?! Hydrogen can be stored for months, delivered by car, tubes, ships, etc Do not have many losses across long distances

_ph_ 5y ago

Not only are the hydrogen production facilities quite expensive, there is a huge loss in producing hydrogen from electricity and back. Also storage is expensive and has energy losses due to the compression work. And you need to transport the hydrogen over large distances. For the same amount of energy to be put into the Asian grid, you need at least 2-3x as many solar cells, if you go via hydrogen.

Mvandenbergh 5y ago

Electricity to hydrogen followed by conversion to liquid and cryogenic transport is about 65% lossy. That doesn't mean you would never do it given cheap enough input electricity but it's not the easy answer.

dukeyukey 5y ago

> Isn't cheaper turn the electricity into liquid hydrogen?! Creating hydrogen is about 80% efficient, so you do lose a fair bit in the process. > Hydrogen can be stored for months, delivered by car, tubes, ships, That's the thing about hydrogen, it's tricky to store for long periods of time. It leaks real easy. And liquid hydrogen isn't very dense, about 7% of that of water, so it's hard to ship it in bulk. And at the point you're piping it, well you may as well just pipe the electricity direct.

BenjiWiebe 5y ago
And if you do store it, it has a nasty tendency to weaken it's container.
- ncmncm 5y ago
  That tendency is usually exaggerated. At LH2 temperature and atmospheric pressure, it is not a problem. You get such troubles storing H2 at high pressure and temperature.
labawi 5y ago
> isn't very dense, about 7% of that of water That's not a good metric. Hydrogen has about 2-3x energy density per mass vs carbon fuels. H₂ is about 120MJ/kg, while carbon fuels are about 35-55 MJ/kg, gasoline/diesel is 45 MJ/kg. Per volume, gasoline - 34 MJ/l, liquid methane 22 MJ/l, liquid hydrogen 8.5 MJ/l. Much smaller, but not laughable 7% (14x).

ZeroGravitas 5y ago

Chile has big plans to export green hydrogen and green ammonia as well as doing this. Presumably once you ship some amount to the same location, the cable starts to make sense.