4 ms·

Given my working class background, she's spot on. If you don't have paid leave, you don't have time to see the doctor. Thousands of people die every year just b

Given my working class background, she's spot on. If you don't have paid leave, you don't have time to see the doctor. Thousands of people die every year just because they don't have time to see a doctor since they're too busy making Subway sandwiches or whatever. She supported her point rather well, post pregnancy complications are extremely common and it shouldn't be a shocker to say you should have time to handle those.

giantg2 5y ago
"Thousands of people die every year just because they don't have time to see a doctor since they're too busy making Subway sandwiches or whatever." I don't think this story shows that. This story involves a call to the doctor. The doctor says it's life threatening. Any person would choose to take off rather than die. In fact, in my experience the people who die because they didn't see a doctor didn't know how serious their condition was, or didn't know they even had a condition. If anything, this story is a good argument for better patient education. After all, she had time off and still didn't pay attention to her symptoms - symptoms which were almost certainly required to be covered with the discharge instructions. So this is really an example of what paid leave looks like and how patient education needs to be improved. "post pregnancy complications are extremely common and it shouldn't be a shocker to say you should have time to handle those." This shouldn't be specific to pregnancy. This same logic can be applied to other medical issues. Is there really any reason to differentiate on causation when talking about medical recovery? There may be childcare issues that could support maternity leave, but those were not really covered here. So I would say this was an article mostly focused on appeal to emotion and theatrics (just look at that intro), not a well reasoned argument.
- 999900000999 5y ago
  In a better world you'd also get paid time off after a car crash , heart surgery, etc. America's the only county that doesn't offer parental leave, it's not radical to say this leads to poor outcomes. https://www.vice.com/en/article/g5g8eq/amazon-denied-a-worker-pregnancy-accommodations-then-she-miscarried https://www.vice.com/en/article/g5g8eq/amazon-denied-a-worke...
  - giantg2 5y ago
    "America's the only county that doesn't offer parental leave, it's not radical to say this leads to poor outcomes." You mean paid parental leave? You should be able to take unpaid parental leave under FMLA for medical reasons. America is not the only country. It depends on if you mean developed country or some other missing adjective. Also, you said parental leave. Many countries only offer maturity leave, and not parental leave (maturnity + paternity). These also have other impacts/reasons than the medical point the original article makes. I'm not sure why you linked that article. Maturnity leave refers to post delivery. Pre delivery would be prenatal leave, which isn't discussed here. They do discuss some medical leave here, which brings me back to the point about not making this solely about maturnity leave, and that the original article is more about medical side and not the other aspects of parental leave.
    - 999900000999 5y ago
      >You mean paid parental leave? You should be able to take unpaid parental leave under FMLA for medical reasons. No working class person can just take 6 months off and still make rent. In many countries you can take leave before having a kid or after. America lacks any such framework, or general worker protection. A family member of mine missed significant time from work due to a difficult pregnancy. Lucky the kid was fine, but her employer just fired her. *Yes this was illegal, but their wasn't any real recourse she could take* Most of us here are very privileged. But no normal person can sell some RSUs and take off half a year
      - giantg2 5y ago
        Perhaps people should look into disability insurance for longer issues. It would still cover other medical issues too. I'm guessing the person in your example needed more than 3 months off, otherwise they would have been protected. If they were protected, there are lawyers who will take a strong case on a contingency basis. Where do we draw the line for when a person can be fired - 3 months, 6 months, 12 months? If one is out for 6+ months, their replacement would likely be up to speed and would have to be laid off (assuming same capacity). At some point it makes more sense for the person who is out to seek a new job and allow the current worker to continue. I don't have RSUs, and I make a lot less than most on this site. I am lucky that my employer provides 10 days of paid family leave in a rolling 12 months. I also have disability insurance. The insurance is attainable for most people (depends on income level but could be as low as $10-15 per month). I think many people don't even think about it. It would be great if our schools taught useful stuff like this.

giantg2 5y ago

"Thousands of people die every year just because they don't have time to see a doctor since they're too busy making Subway sandwiches or whatever." I don't think this story shows that. This story involves a call to the doctor. The doctor says it's life threatening. Any person would choose to take off rather than die. In fact, in my experience the people who die because they didn't see a doctor didn't know how serious their condition was, or didn't know they even had a condition. If anything, this story is a good argument for better patient education. After all, she had time off and still didn't pay attention to her symptoms - symptoms which were almost certainly required to be covered with the discharge instructions. So this is really an example of what paid leave looks like and how patient education needs to be improved. "post pregnancy complications are extremely common and it shouldn't be a shocker to say you should have time to handle those." This shouldn't be specific to pregnancy. This same logic can be applied to other medical issues. Is there really any reason to differentiate on causation when talking about medical recovery? There may be childcare issues that could support maternity leave, but those were not really covered here. So I would say this was an article mostly focused on appeal to emotion and theatrics (just look at that intro), not a well reasoned argument.

999900000999 5y ago
In a better world you'd also get paid time off after a car crash , heart surgery, etc. America's the only county that doesn't offer parental leave, it's not radical to say this leads to poor outcomes. https://www.vice.com/en/article/g5g8eq/amazon-denied-a-worker-pregnancy-accommodations-then-she-miscarried https://www.vice.com/en/article/g5g8eq/amazon-denied-a-worke...
- giantg2 5y ago
  "America's the only county that doesn't offer parental leave, it's not radical to say this leads to poor outcomes." You mean paid parental leave? You should be able to take unpaid parental leave under FMLA for medical reasons. America is not the only country. It depends on if you mean developed country or some other missing adjective. Also, you said parental leave. Many countries only offer maturity leave, and not parental leave (maturnity + paternity). These also have other impacts/reasons than the medical point the original article makes. I'm not sure why you linked that article. Maturnity leave refers to post delivery. Pre delivery would be prenatal leave, which isn't discussed here. They do discuss some medical leave here, which brings me back to the point about not making this solely about maturnity leave, and that the original article is more about medical side and not the other aspects of parental leave.
  - 999900000999 5y ago
    >You mean paid parental leave? You should be able to take unpaid parental leave under FMLA for medical reasons. No working class person can just take 6 months off and still make rent. In many countries you can take leave before having a kid or after. America lacks any such framework, or general worker protection. A family member of mine missed significant time from work due to a difficult pregnancy. Lucky the kid was fine, but her employer just fired her. *Yes this was illegal, but their wasn't any real recourse she could take* Most of us here are very privileged. But no normal person can sell some RSUs and take off half a year
    - giantg2 5y ago
      Perhaps people should look into disability insurance for longer issues. It would still cover other medical issues too. I'm guessing the person in your example needed more than 3 months off, otherwise they would have been protected. If they were protected, there are lawyers who will take a strong case on a contingency basis. Where do we draw the line for when a person can be fired - 3 months, 6 months, 12 months? If one is out for 6+ months, their replacement would likely be up to speed and would have to be laid off (assuming same capacity). At some point it makes more sense for the person who is out to seek a new job and allow the current worker to continue. I don't have RSUs, and I make a lot less than most on this site. I am lucky that my employer provides 10 days of paid family leave in a rolling 12 months. I also have disability insurance. The insurance is attainable for most people (depends on income level but could be as low as $10-15 per month). I think many people don't even think about it. It would be great if our schools taught useful stuff like this.