6 ms·

I think your frame of reference may be a bit warped. What is an 'average' salary? The median personal income in 2019 was $35,805 (cf. https://fred.stlouisfed.o

by cure 5y ago

I think your frame of reference may be a bit warped. What is an 'average' salary? The median personal income in 2019 was $35,805 (cf. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N). I think you'd be hard pressed to live on that with a family of 3+ people. And what about the 50% of people who have a personal income less than the median? edit: that stat was for 2019, not 2020, my bad

treis 5y ago
That looks like it counts everyone over 14 including students and retirees. And it's the highest it has ever been in real terms.
burntoutfire 5y ago
That's $2983 per month. Biggest costs of life are housing, food and transportation. With one person staying at home, both the cost of transpo and food go down (because: one less person commuting to job, everything can be home cooked and the person staying at home have time to shop smartly and save a lot thanks to it). This lives housing costs. Here, it's all about location. In many areas (assuming renting), you can have a house or apartment suitable for a family of three for less than $1000 a month.
- showerst 5y ago
  > That's $2983 per month. Before taxes. That's in the area of 2400/mo after taxes [1]. My family of 3 pays around 600/mo for health insurance after employer subsidies, so call it 1800/mo. So after rent now you're living (with an infant!) on 800 a month. That's brutal. My newborn burns nearly that much just on formula, diapers, and life-critical medicine. [1] https://smartasset.com/taxes/paycheck-calculator#nNffey40fm https://smartasset.com/taxes/paycheck-calculator#nNffey40fm
  - jrumbut 5y ago
    And of course, this is the median salary. 50% of people make less.
  - foogazi 5y ago
    Do you make less than 35k a year ? ACA has subsidies for lower income households
    - showerst 5y ago
      Generally subsidies don’t apply if you’re getting an employer subsidy, and they drop off quickly as you rise over the poverty line. I have no clue how the math works on average in terms of 35k jobs offering a subsidy at all, vs the marketplace subsidy. But even at a 50% subsidy it’s still not much money to raise a family on.
- Fantosism 5y ago
  On average in the US, 1 in 2 bankruptcies are due to medical debt. I think it's disingenuous to include the "biggest costs of life" and omit what is arguably the largest for an american citizen. 3000 gross is more like 2-25 net depending on the state. I haven't been in many industries where an employer is going to be covering healthcare costs for an $18/hr employee. So for a family of 3, that's another $1,000 a month for insurance.
  - nickff 5y ago
    >" On average in the US, 1 in 2 bankruptcies are due to medical debt. I think it's disingenuous to include the "biggest costs of life" and omit what is arguably the largest for an american citizen." If one's income is as low as the parent described, they would likely be eligible for Medicaid.
    - Fantosism 5y ago
      Medicaid is for low-income earners. The parent described the median-income earner. In my state of Arizona, if you were grossing 36,000 a year with a family of 3 you would be about 20% over the threshold to qualify for medicaid.
      - WesleyJohnson 5y ago
        That's just insane. The US healthcare system is absolute shit. Yes, I'm an American.
- jrumbut 5y ago
  That leaves 0 margin for error. If your kid breaks a bone and you have to pay for $X000 ambulance ride to an out of network hospital you're screwed for years.
- athenot 5y ago
  > That's $2983 per month. Gross. More like $2200 after tax. Healthcare for a family of 4 averaged to $1777/month in 2020[1]. The higher up the income ladder, the more the employer pays that. On the low-end, the employer doesn't pick up much of that tab. So that's the largest expense… unless it's sacrificed in order to maintain a roof, food and transportation. And we're assuming zero contributions towards retirement, here. So... no, it is NOT easy to live on that amount of money anywhere where there are opportunities to grow one's job/career. [1] In 2020, annual premiums for health coverage for a family of four averaged $21,342, but employers picked up 73% of that cost. - https://www.investopedia.com/how-much-does-health-insurance-cost-4774184 https://www.investopedia.com/how-much-does-health-insurance-...

by cure 5y ago

treis 5y ago

That looks like it counts everyone over 14 including students and retirees. And it's the highest it has ever been in real terms.

burntoutfire 5y ago

That's $2983 per month. Biggest costs of life are housing, food and transportation. With one person staying at home, both the cost of transpo and food go down (because: one less person commuting to job, everything can be home cooked and the person staying at home have time to shop smartly and save a lot thanks to it). This lives housing costs. Here, it's all about location. In many areas (assuming renting), you can have a house or apartment suitable for a family of three for less than $1000 a month.

showerst 5y ago
> That's $2983 per month. Before taxes. That's in the area of 2400/mo after taxes [1]. My family of 3 pays around 600/mo for health insurance after employer subsidies, so call it 1800/mo. So after rent now you're living (with an infant!) on 800 a month. That's brutal. My newborn burns nearly that much just on formula, diapers, and life-critical medicine. [1] https://smartasset.com/taxes/paycheck-calculator#nNffey40fm https://smartasset.com/taxes/paycheck-calculator#nNffey40fm
- jrumbut 5y ago
  And of course, this is the median salary. 50% of people make less.
- foogazi 5y ago
  Do you make less than 35k a year ? ACA has subsidies for lower income households
  - showerst 5y ago
    Generally subsidies don’t apply if you’re getting an employer subsidy, and they drop off quickly as you rise over the poverty line. I have no clue how the math works on average in terms of 35k jobs offering a subsidy at all, vs the marketplace subsidy. But even at a 50% subsidy it’s still not much money to raise a family on.
Fantosism 5y ago
On average in the US, 1 in 2 bankruptcies are due to medical debt. I think it's disingenuous to include the "biggest costs of life" and omit what is arguably the largest for an american citizen. 3000 gross is more like 2-25 net depending on the state. I haven't been in many industries where an employer is going to be covering healthcare costs for an $18/hr employee. So for a family of 3, that's another $1,000 a month for insurance.
- nickff 5y ago
  >" On average in the US, 1 in 2 bankruptcies are due to medical debt. I think it's disingenuous to include the "biggest costs of life" and omit what is arguably the largest for an american citizen." If one's income is as low as the parent described, they would likely be eligible for Medicaid.
  - Fantosism 5y ago
    Medicaid is for low-income earners. The parent described the median-income earner. In my state of Arizona, if you were grossing 36,000 a year with a family of 3 you would be about 20% over the threshold to qualify for medicaid.
    - WesleyJohnson 5y ago
      That's just insane. The US healthcare system is absolute shit. Yes, I'm an American.
jrumbut 5y ago
That leaves 0 margin for error. If your kid breaks a bone and you have to pay for $X000 ambulance ride to an out of network hospital you're screwed for years.
athenot 5y ago
> That's $2983 per month. Gross. More like $2200 after tax. Healthcare for a family of 4 averaged to $1777/month in 2020[1]. The higher up the income ladder, the more the employer pays that. On the low-end, the employer doesn't pick up much of that tab. So that's the largest expense… unless it's sacrificed in order to maintain a roof, food and transportation. And we're assuming zero contributions towards retirement, here. So... no, it is NOT easy to live on that amount of money anywhere where there are opportunities to grow one's job/career. [1] In 2020, annual premiums for health coverage for a family of four averaged $21,342, but employers picked up 73% of that cost. - https://www.investopedia.com/how-much-does-health-insurance-cost-4774184 https://www.investopedia.com/how-much-does-health-insurance-...