7 ms·

One important thing not mentioned here: Apple should make sure to keep up Safari Development. It's by far the worst browser available and the web platform is on

One important thing not mentioned here: Apple should make sure to keep up Safari Development. It's by far the worst browser available and the web platform is only growing.

sedeki 5y ago
Care to elaborate?
- jimbob45 5y ago
  You cannot use anything outside of Safari on iOS [0]. FireFox/Chrome aren't allowed to have extensions on iOS for that reason (Regular Safari can because antitrust is MS-only). [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25850091 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25850091
  - rabuse 5y ago
    Let's not forget their hold back on push notifications so a lot of us can get out of their walled garden.
- jjoonathan 5y ago
  Google forked WebKit in 2013 and stopped upstreaming changes. Now Google's fork is the one that everyone uses. Apple launched the WebKit revolution, but Google grabbed the ball and ran with it, Apple didn't give chase, and now they are behind. A pity.
- FinalBriefing 5y ago
  It is always behind on web technologies and hasn't implemented may features that have been around for a while. It only gets updated once a year, so any updates they do make are slow to hit users. This wouldn't be so bad if they were more up to date with Firefox and Chrome.
  - Jcowell 5y ago
    Is it behind web technologies or is it behind Google Chrome Features ?
    - motoxpro 5y ago
      Chrome, Firefox, Brave, etc.
    - no_way 5y ago
      Answer is both
- makerofspoons 5y ago
  Safari is famously behind on supporting PWAs, most notably their implementation is missing web push notifications.
  - handrous 5y ago
    Not having web push is a feature. They're the 3rd party toolbar or BonziBuddy of the modern web—often enabled, but rarely wanted—however nice an idea they were in theory.
    - mrguyorama 5y ago
      Firefox lets me simply deny a web page the ability to send a notification when it attempts to do so, allowing me to only let the apps I want do so, while not bothering me about the majority of web sites that don't use it. Why should apple make this choice for me?
      - handrous 5y ago
        I'd love some data on what percentage of web-push notifications going out are to users who want them, versus to users who didn't realize browsers had added a feature to let websites shit up their desktop, and, like most folks, just click "allow" on everything that pops up on a site (as there's rarely any reason, for normal people, not to) and don't know why or how some site they visited once is sending them stuff. My experience from my immediate friends and family support circle is "0%" and "100%", respectively, but I'd be open to data showing that the first number is slightly higher than 0%. The "UX" for this feature for normal users is, as far as I can tell, exactly like the bad old days when people'd accidentally install 3rd party "search bars", then not know how to get rid of them. Historically, browsers have worked to keep web sites from doing things that affect the machine outside that site's browser pane, that normal users don't want or expect them to be able to do.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - 5y ago
- MawKKe 5y ago
  For iPad oh boy they sure added new niceties such as: - Not being able to click a tab unless you drag it to the center of the tab bar - Make a "drag a link/anchor into a new window" feature; except it triggers way too easily from ordinary scrolling, forcing you to spend the next 15-30 seconds figuring out how the FUCK do you close it with an non-obvious swipe gesture. Apparently buttons with "Close" or a big X are too complicated.
  - evancox100 5y ago
    Oh my god the inadvertent link drag to new window (or just overwrite current window) has been killing me, glad I’m not the only one, means there’s a chance it gets addressed.
rabuse 5y ago
Same experience. The amount of css "quirks" I have to work around trying to get a site "mobile friendly" is absurd. The navbar issue, and the scrolling still not being disabled with overflow:hidden makes me bang my head against the wall.
freediver 5y ago
On a Mac, Safari is the best browser (as defined by being fast, battery efficient and native app) by a far margin compared to other mainstream choices, only matched by the Orion browser (but I may be biased).
- phoenixdblack 5y ago
  Since Internet Explorer is not supported anymore by most websites Safari has become the new worst browser in regards to having really bad CSS and Web API Support.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    ...and bad PWA support, shaky VOIP/WebRTC support, the worst codec compatibility in the game, a lack of desktop notification options, need we go on?
  - nickpp 5y ago
    Yeah maybe you as a developer want some fancy CSS and bleeding fresh Web API but I as a user don't. The web is too bloated as it is, I feel that Apple is on my side putting a damper on that. Safari is powerful enough as it is. You want voip, notifications, codecs and so on - do the work and learn to write a native app. I'd rather pay for that than paying with my attention to ads in your "free" web app.
    - no_way 5y ago
      Well I as a developer just want a browser which doesn't break existing features: localstorage, indexeddb were completely broken for months this year. Like CSS containment is feature that was shipped in Chrome in 2016, Firefox 2019 so how many years have to pass for Safari to implement it so it isn't just 'some new shiny' feature anymore?
    - akiselev 5y ago
      > The web is too bloated as it is, I feel that Apple is on my side putting a damper on that. Like how Safari doesn't support WebP?
dmitriid 5y ago
> It's by far the worst browser available It's not

One important thing not mentioned here: Apple should make sure to keep up Safari Development. It's by far the worst browser available and the web platform is only growing.

sedeki 5y ago

Care to elaborate?

jimbob45 5y ago
You cannot use anything outside of Safari on iOS [0]. FireFox/Chrome aren't allowed to have extensions on iOS for that reason (Regular Safari can because antitrust is MS-only). [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25850091 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25850091
- rabuse 5y ago
  Let's not forget their hold back on push notifications so a lot of us can get out of their walled garden.
jjoonathan 5y ago
Google forked WebKit in 2013 and stopped upstreaming changes. Now Google's fork is the one that everyone uses. Apple launched the WebKit revolution, but Google grabbed the ball and ran with it, Apple didn't give chase, and now they are behind. A pity.
FinalBriefing 5y ago
It is always behind on web technologies and hasn't implemented may features that have been around for a while. It only gets updated once a year, so any updates they do make are slow to hit users. This wouldn't be so bad if they were more up to date with Firefox and Chrome.
- Jcowell 5y ago
  Is it behind web technologies or is it behind Google Chrome Features ?
  - motoxpro 5y ago
    Chrome, Firefox, Brave, etc.
  - no_way 5y ago
    Answer is both
makerofspoons 5y ago
Safari is famously behind on supporting PWAs, most notably their implementation is missing web push notifications.
- handrous 5y ago
  Not having web push is a feature. They're the 3rd party toolbar or BonziBuddy of the modern web—often enabled, but rarely wanted—however nice an idea they were in theory.
  - mrguyorama 5y ago
    Firefox lets me simply deny a web page the ability to send a notification when it attempts to do so, allowing me to only let the apps I want do so, while not bothering me about the majority of web sites that don't use it. Why should apple make this choice for me?
    - handrous 5y ago
      I'd love some data on what percentage of web-push notifications going out are to users who want them, versus to users who didn't realize browsers had added a feature to let websites shit up their desktop, and, like most folks, just click "allow" on everything that pops up on a site (as there's rarely any reason, for normal people, not to) and don't know why or how some site they visited once is sending them stuff. My experience from my immediate friends and family support circle is "0%" and "100%", respectively, but I'd be open to data showing that the first number is slightly higher than 0%. The "UX" for this feature for normal users is, as far as I can tell, exactly like the bad old days when people'd accidentally install 3rd party "search bars", then not know how to get rid of them. Historically, browsers have worked to keep web sites from doing things that affect the machine outside that site's browser pane, that normal users don't want or expect them to be able to do.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - 5y ago
MawKKe 5y ago
For iPad oh boy they sure added new niceties such as: - Not being able to click a tab unless you drag it to the center of the tab bar - Make a "drag a link/anchor into a new window" feature; except it triggers way too easily from ordinary scrolling, forcing you to spend the next 15-30 seconds figuring out how the FUCK do you close it with an non-obvious swipe gesture. Apparently buttons with "Close" or a big X are too complicated.
- evancox100 5y ago
  Oh my god the inadvertent link drag to new window (or just overwrite current window) has been killing me, glad I’m not the only one, means there’s a chance it gets addressed.

rabuse 5y ago

Same experience. The amount of css "quirks" I have to work around trying to get a site "mobile friendly" is absurd. The navbar issue, and the scrolling still not being disabled with overflow:hidden makes me bang my head against the wall.

freediver 5y ago

On a Mac, Safari is the best browser (as defined by being fast, battery efficient and native app) by a far margin compared to other mainstream choices, only matched by the Orion browser (but I may be biased).

phoenixdblack 5y ago
Since Internet Explorer is not supported anymore by most websites Safari has become the new worst browser in regards to having really bad CSS and Web API Support.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  ...and bad PWA support, shaky VOIP/WebRTC support, the worst codec compatibility in the game, a lack of desktop notification options, need we go on?
- nickpp 5y ago
  Yeah maybe you as a developer want some fancy CSS and bleeding fresh Web API but I as a user don't. The web is too bloated as it is, I feel that Apple is on my side putting a damper on that. Safari is powerful enough as it is. You want voip, notifications, codecs and so on - do the work and learn to write a native app. I'd rather pay for that than paying with my attention to ads in your "free" web app.
  - no_way 5y ago
    Well I as a developer just want a browser which doesn't break existing features: localstorage, indexeddb were completely broken for months this year. Like CSS containment is feature that was shipped in Chrome in 2016, Firefox 2019 so how many years have to pass for Safari to implement it so it isn't just 'some new shiny' feature anymore?
  - akiselev 5y ago
    > The web is too bloated as it is, I feel that Apple is on my side putting a damper on that. Like how Safari doesn't support WebP?

dmitriid 5y ago

> It's by far the worst browser available It's not