5 ms·

To build an 18th-century ship, shipwrights had to remaster a lost craft

58 points by benbreen 5y ago

jacquesm 5y ago
Steamboxes that large aren't common but steam bending of wood has never been 'lost', it has just been substantially scaled down from how common it was in the past, just like many other techniques for working wood and other materials. But in bespoke furniture making it has been in continuous use for centuries. I'm really not sure what part of it was deemed to have been lost.
- hasmanean 5y ago
  Yeah there are people making canoes and small boats in Ontario that use steam bending. Then there is this classic film by the NFB in Canada about how one man made a cedar bark canoe using old fashioned techniques. https://youtu.be/VRFCxxAKafc https://youtu.be/VRFCxxAKafc
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Ah yes, I totally forgot about those and it's not like I haven't seen that kind of thing being done in practice in Canada, a friend of mine built one like that, and it came out very nice.
- xavieralexandre 5y ago
  Steam bending was and is still used for mass-produced furniture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._14_chair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._14_chair And there are also very interesting modern takes on bending wood such as compwood: http://compwood.com/processen/ http://compwood.com/processen/ The wood is heated and compressed longitudinally. Once cold it stays (super) bendable as long as it is still wet. https://blog.lostartpress.com/2020/07/22/a-little-bit-about-cold-bend-hardwood/ https://blog.lostartpress.com/2020/07/22/a-little-bit-about-...
skyfaller 5y ago
It seems SailCargo has also been working with steam boxes to construct their new wooden sailing cargo ship, Ceiba. https://www.sailcargo.inc/ https://www.sailcargo.inc/ You can see workers pulling a plank out of a steam box in their latest video update around 2:45: https://piped.kavin.rocks/watch?v=LW56HDEYzcA https://piped.kavin.rocks/watch?v=LW56HDEYzcA
PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
Related link for those not already aware of it: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCg-_lYeV8hBnDSay7nmphUA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCg-_lYeV8hBnDSay7nmphUA Leo is a British/American boat builder reconstructing a 111 "classic sailing yacht" up in Port Townsend, WA. He typically releases 1 video per week, and they are often wonderfully shot & edited visual meditations on the nature and practice of manual construction. Things have become a little more uptempo musically since the move to the boat yard at PT, but there's still a delightful sense of calm, steady skillfull work throughout. And even on this much smaller project, yes, steam boxes were important when forming the new hull. [ EDIT: I got this wrong. No steam here. ]
- rainbowzootsuit 5y ago
  And the Tally Ho restoration is only two years from completion at this time.
- krisoft 5y ago
  > Leo is a British/American boat builder ... ... and a sailor! :) > And even on this much smaller project, yes, steam boxes were important when forming the new hull. Are you sure? I don't remember them using steam boxes for the Tally Ho. I think they use sawn frame construction instead of steam bending them. Maybe you are mixing it up with Acorn To Arabell? It's an other youtube channel who do definitely steam bent a lot of frames: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOFP4Rop4u0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOFP4Rop4u0
  - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
    Fairly sure they built a steam box in an old shipping container at some point along the way. Not sure which components it was for.
    - plopz 5y ago
      I remember them doing that, was that for steaming or to dry out green lumber?
    - 5y ago
sillyquiet 5y ago
This isn't related to shipbuilding, but it IS related to steam-bending and the recovery and preservation of lost artisanry: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0xj7OujbwU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0xj7OujbwU Channel of one of the last few remaining wainwrights in the US.
gumby 5y ago
I hope to live to see a similar article someday on building the Saturn V or even Concorde, both systems built by hand with minimal to no computing and neither buildable today. (though modern alternatives exist, just as modern alternatives to the Götheborg exist)
- vkou 5y ago
  I will note that just about any old technology is 'not buildable today'. Nobody today 'can build' a Ming Dynasty iron-smelting furnace, because we don't have detailed instructions for how to do so. But with a lot of work, we can figure out how to build a pretty close approximation. The more precise the tolerances, or the more parts something has, the harder the 'figuring out' step is.
Animats 5y ago
I looked at the picture, and thought, what? It's in a busy harbor. There's a slight wake, so it's moving and not anchored. It's headed for a wall. All the sails are furled. It's either under power or adrift and in big trouble. Turns out it's not quite early 18th century. It has an engine. And a lot more. Below decks, it's quite modern.[1] "The vessel is fitted with two adjustable propellers and two 404 kW engines. The electricity supply comes from two 180 kW generators, in addition to an emergency generator. Apart from propulsion machinery and generators, the engine room is equipped with pumps, a boiler, a bilgewater separator, and an air compressor." "The front cargo room has two tank rooms filled with technical equipment. Between the rooms, there are five waterproof steel bulkheads. Furthermore, two large floodable bilge pumps are able to pump up to 500 tonnes an hour. The fuel room is located in the aftmost tank room and can hold 36 000 litres in total. The full capacity of the machinery and generator consumes approximately 2000 litres a day. The vessel’s toilet system is connected to 12 toilets around the ship and is also located in the stern. The water room is found in the front tank room and contains water production equipment and a laundry room." "The galley is located one deck below and is an ultra-modern compact kitchen with a convection oven, tiltable pans and cookware, a cold bench, and more. The scullery is located next to the Galley, containing a dishwasher and other equipment." It's even air conditioned. That's a good thing if they want to sail it around the world. As is an adequate maintenance budget. Wooden ships are high-maintenance. See HMS Bounty Replica sinking.[2] [1] https://www.gotheborg.se/about-us/about-the-ship/#tab--technology https://www.gotheborg.se/about-us/about-the-ship/#tab--techn... [2] https://www.professionalmariner.com/tall-ship-bounty-loses-generators-sinks-in-fatal-hurricane-accident https://www.professionalmariner.com/tall-ship-bounty-loses-g...
- JasonFruit 5y ago
  Not many men have the opportunity to go down as the captain of a tall ship these days. I'm not sure if that would enter my dying thoughts, but I know people it would.
- mstade 5y ago
  Sadly I missed seeing this ship when it visited Stockholm a couple of months ago, but I’ve seen it when docked in Gothenburg. I’ve never been on board sadly, but even just looking at it from the docks it’s such an impressive sight, I found myself just staring and marveling at it quite a while. If anyone here on HN is anywhere along the route of the trip to China and you’re in to this sort of thing, I highly recommend going to see it. Even if you don’t much care for tall ships, maybe go see it anyway – you won’t be disappointed! Also worth a visit if you’re in Stockholm is the Vasa museum[1]. It’s got a lot of good stuff both about recovering the ship as well as the construction and why it failed so spectacularly. Iconically, the story of the Vasa ship has so many parallels to modern day development that one might be tempted to draw the conclusion that we haven’t really learned all that much since then.. :o) [1]: https://www.vasamuseet.se/en https://www.vasamuseet.se/en

58 points by benbreen 5y ago

Steamboxes that large aren't common but steam bending of wood has never been 'lost', it has just been substantially scaled down from how common it was in the past, just like many other techniques for working wood and other materials. But in bespoke furniture making it has been in continuous use for centuries. I'm really not sure what part of it was deemed to have been lost.

hasmanean 5y ago
Yeah there are people making canoes and small boats in Ontario that use steam bending. Then there is this classic film by the NFB in Canada about how one man made a cedar bark canoe using old fashioned techniques. https://youtu.be/VRFCxxAKafc https://youtu.be/VRFCxxAKafc
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Ah yes, I totally forgot about those and it's not like I haven't seen that kind of thing being done in practice in Canada, a friend of mine built one like that, and it came out very nice.
xavieralexandre 5y ago
Steam bending was and is still used for mass-produced furniture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._14_chair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._14_chair And there are also very interesting modern takes on bending wood such as compwood: http://compwood.com/processen/ http://compwood.com/processen/ The wood is heated and compressed longitudinally. Once cold it stays (super) bendable as long as it is still wet. https://blog.lostartpress.com/2020/07/22/a-little-bit-about-cold-bend-hardwood/ https://blog.lostartpress.com/2020/07/22/a-little-bit-about-...

skyfaller 5y ago

It seems SailCargo has also been working with steam boxes to construct their new wooden sailing cargo ship, Ceiba. https://www.sailcargo.inc/ https://www.sailcargo.inc/ You can see workers pulling a plank out of a steam box in their latest video update around 2:45: https://piped.kavin.rocks/watch?v=LW56HDEYzcA https://piped.kavin.rocks/watch?v=LW56HDEYzcA

PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago

Related link for those not already aware of it: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCg-_lYeV8hBnDSay7nmphUA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCg-_lYeV8hBnDSay7nmphUA Leo is a British/American boat builder reconstructing a 111 "classic sailing yacht" up in Port Townsend, WA. He typically releases 1 video per week, and they are often wonderfully shot & edited visual meditations on the nature and practice of manual construction. Things have become a little more uptempo musically since the move to the boat yard at PT, but there's still a delightful sense of calm, steady skillfull work throughout. And even on this much smaller project, yes, steam boxes were important when forming the new hull. [ EDIT: I got this wrong. No steam here. ]

rainbowzootsuit 5y ago
And the Tally Ho restoration is only two years from completion at this time.
krisoft 5y ago
> Leo is a British/American boat builder ... ... and a sailor! :) > And even on this much smaller project, yes, steam boxes were important when forming the new hull. Are you sure? I don't remember them using steam boxes for the Tally Ho. I think they use sawn frame construction instead of steam bending them. Maybe you are mixing it up with Acorn To Arabell? It's an other youtube channel who do definitely steam bent a lot of frames: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOFP4Rop4u0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOFP4Rop4u0
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  Fairly sure they built a steam box in an old shipping container at some point along the way. Not sure which components it was for.
  - plopz 5y ago
    I remember them doing that, was that for steaming or to dry out green lumber?
  - 5y ago

sillyquiet 5y ago

This isn't related to shipbuilding, but it IS related to steam-bending and the recovery and preservation of lost artisanry: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0xj7OujbwU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0xj7OujbwU Channel of one of the last few remaining wainwrights in the US.

gumby 5y ago

I hope to live to see a similar article someday on building the Saturn V or even Concorde, both systems built by hand with minimal to no computing and neither buildable today. (though modern alternatives exist, just as modern alternatives to the Götheborg exist)

vkou 5y ago
I will note that just about any old technology is 'not buildable today'. Nobody today 'can build' a Ming Dynasty iron-smelting furnace, because we don't have detailed instructions for how to do so. But with a lot of work, we can figure out how to build a pretty close approximation. The more precise the tolerances, or the more parts something has, the harder the 'figuring out' step is.

Animats 5y ago

I looked at the picture, and thought, what? It's in a busy harbor. There's a slight wake, so it's moving and not anchored. It's headed for a wall. All the sails are furled. It's either under power or adrift and in big trouble. Turns out it's not quite early 18th century. It has an engine. And a lot more. Below decks, it's quite modern.[1] "The vessel is fitted with two adjustable propellers and two 404 kW engines. The electricity supply comes from two 180 kW generators, in addition to an emergency generator. Apart from propulsion machinery and generators, the engine room is equipped with pumps, a boiler, a bilgewater separator, and an air compressor." "The front cargo room has two tank rooms filled with technical equipment. Between the rooms, there are five waterproof steel bulkheads. Furthermore, two large floodable bilge pumps are able to pump up to 500 tonnes an hour. The fuel room is located in the aftmost tank room and can hold 36 000 litres in total. The full capacity of the machinery and generator consumes approximately 2000 litres a day. The vessel’s toilet system is connected to 12 toilets around the ship and is also located in the stern. The water room is found in the front tank room and contains water production equipment and a laundry room." "The galley is located one deck below and is an ultra-modern compact kitchen with a convection oven, tiltable pans and cookware, a cold bench, and more. The scullery is located next to the Galley, containing a dishwasher and other equipment." It's even air conditioned. That's a good thing if they want to sail it around the world. As is an adequate maintenance budget. Wooden ships are high-maintenance. See HMS Bounty Replica sinking.[2] [1] https://www.gotheborg.se/about-us/about-the-ship/#tab--technology https://www.gotheborg.se/about-us/about-the-ship/#tab--techn... [2] https://www.professionalmariner.com/tall-ship-bounty-loses-generators-sinks-in-fatal-hurricane-accident https://www.professionalmariner.com/tall-ship-bounty-loses-g...

JasonFruit 5y ago
Not many men have the opportunity to go down as the captain of a tall ship these days. I'm not sure if that would enter my dying thoughts, but I know people it would.
mstade 5y ago
Sadly I missed seeing this ship when it visited Stockholm a couple of months ago, but I’ve seen it when docked in Gothenburg. I’ve never been on board sadly, but even just looking at it from the docks it’s such an impressive sight, I found myself just staring and marveling at it quite a while. If anyone here on HN is anywhere along the route of the trip to China and you’re in to this sort of thing, I highly recommend going to see it. Even if you don’t much care for tall ships, maybe go see it anyway – you won’t be disappointed! Also worth a visit if you’re in Stockholm is the Vasa museum[1]. It’s got a lot of good stuff both about recovering the ship as well as the construction and why it failed so spectacularly. Iconically, the story of the Vasa ship has so many parallels to modern day development that one might be tempted to draw the conclusion that we haven’t really learned all that much since then.. :o) [1]: https://www.vasamuseet.se/en https://www.vasamuseet.se/en