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Agreeing with parent here is in conflict with your original point. Your original point is that poor people are in that position because they're bad with money a

Agreeing with parent here is in conflict with your original point. Your original point is that poor people are in that position because they're bad with money and make bad financial choices. Parent is asserting that it's a systemic issue that is unrelated to individual financial responsibility. These positions are incompatible.

charcircuit 5y ago
I thought he was saying that it was a systemic issue that people were irresponsible with money.
- Apocryphon 5y ago
  Yes, but in that case "irresponsibility" becomes less of individual character failings and more of a society-wide issue that requires society-wide solutions. People do not receive sufficient financial education. [0] There are is too much cheap credit and major institutions desire it. [1] They are too enticed to consume. [2] Basic costs of living have risen sharply [3] while wages have not. [4] When all of this is considered, it is clear that the aggregate problem is less irresponsibility, and more that Americans are simply being pushed to their limits from every direction, by structures and systems that are stacked against them. [0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/danipascarella/2018/04/03/4-stats-that-reveal-how-badly-america-is-failing-at-financial-literacy https://www.forbes.com/sites/danipascarella/2018/04/03/4-sta... [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/covid-consumers-did-great-job-paying-credit-card-debt-it-cant-last.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/covid-consumers-did-great-jo... [2] https://www.apa.org/monitor/2008/07-08/consumerism https://www.apa.org/monitor/2008/07-08/consumerism [3] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/04/47-percent-of-americans-say-cost-of-living-is-top-threat-to-future-security.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/04/47-percent-of-americans-say-... [4] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us...

charcircuit 5y ago

I thought he was saying that it was a systemic issue that people were irresponsible with money.

Apocryphon 5y ago
Yes, but in that case "irresponsibility" becomes less of individual character failings and more of a society-wide issue that requires society-wide solutions. People do not receive sufficient financial education. [0] There are is too much cheap credit and major institutions desire it. [1] They are too enticed to consume. [2] Basic costs of living have risen sharply [3] while wages have not. [4] When all of this is considered, it is clear that the aggregate problem is less irresponsibility, and more that Americans are simply being pushed to their limits from every direction, by structures and systems that are stacked against them. [0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/danipascarella/2018/04/03/4-stats-that-reveal-how-badly-america-is-failing-at-financial-literacy https://www.forbes.com/sites/danipascarella/2018/04/03/4-sta... [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/covid-consumers-did-great-job-paying-credit-card-debt-it-cant-last.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/covid-consumers-did-great-jo... [2] https://www.apa.org/monitor/2008/07-08/consumerism https://www.apa.org/monitor/2008/07-08/consumerism [3] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/04/47-percent-of-americans-say-cost-of-living-is-top-threat-to-future-security.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/04/47-percent-of-americans-say-... [4] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us...