4 ms·

Maybe we should look at why three sectors of the economy have had insane cost growth for three plus decades (housing, healthcare, education) and fix that instea

Maybe we should look at why three sectors of the economy have had insane cost growth for three plus decades (housing, healthcare, education) and fix that instead of trying to band aid the negative consequences?

sofixa 5y ago
Even if you fix those three, no parental leave is barbaric.
- bradleyjg 5y ago
  Is this kind of thing supposed to persuasive? You’ve presented no argument whatsoever. Is the idea that if use an emotionally laden term like “barbaric” you think it will browbeat people into falling into line with your opinion?
  - sofixa 5y ago
    It was meant to illustrate that we're talking about separate things. "Fixing" three things getting more expensive doesn't in any way negate the barbarism that is no parental leave. Even if you think that them getting cheaper will mean the return of a stay at home parent (assuming they actually want it), it's still barbaric not to give the other parent an opportunity to spend time and help with the infant.
  - dralley 5y ago
    This is one of those things that shouldn't need to be explained, even to 20-something tech bros who've never had a child themselves.
    - bradleyjg 5y ago
      Of course not. Nothing needs to be explained or justified anymore. We have an entire generation so fully confident in the absolute correctness and obviousness of every single iota of their many strongly held moral opinions that even asking for an explanation offends them. And they can’t understand why they keep on failing to achieve their policy goals. PS: I don’t think there were too many <= 19 year olds signing up for hacker news in 2011.
      - dralley 5y ago
        > Of course not. Nothing needs to be explained or justified anymore. We have an entire generation so fully confident in the absolute correctness and obviousness of every single iota of their many strongly held moral opinions that even asking for an explanation offends them. Just to be clear hear, we're talking about parents being able to take care of their newborns and not being forced back to work after "2-4 weeks" as the OP stated.
      - jensensbutton 5y ago
        OK, please explain how fixing housing, healthcare, education will remove the need for parental leave. It's your argument, motivate it.
  - epivosism 5y ago
    I think the request is fair. Be time-idempotent; imagine if you were talking to someone from the 15th century and they were SURE they were right about their crazy opinions. The meta-stable way to be reasonable is that as long as someone seems to be honestly asking the reasoning for your beliefs, and your principles, you should try to explain yourself, rather than just shut them down by repeating your assertion of correctness. Otherwise, how will you find out about the likely beliefs you hold right now, which our descendants will consider insane and evil? Forcing yourself to self-introspection is a good practice. I don't expect anyone to change their mind about this, but being able to explain to others your reasoning can also clear up your own views, and help convince your adversary much more effectively than the "just repeat your position" argument style.
lifeformed 5y ago
You mean there's a choice?! Cool, I'd be happy if we simply just fixed all the massive, complex problems of the entire economy over just having parental leave.
- hattmall 5y ago
  Of course there's a choice, there's a singular reason for the rising cost of all those things. Government intervention and injecting money into those markets. Costs will rise to absorb availability of funds. Give people virtually unlimited finding for higher education?? Expect costs to rise at a similar rate. Force everyone to buy insurance through a rigid process and heavily subsidize the worst possible coverage. Makes perfect sense that prices rise and quality deteriorates. Have the government lend trillions of dollars at low interest with minimal qualifications for housing. Expected outcome is realized. Same is happening with childcare. Government increases child care credit. No surprise that daycare has raised the rate $30 per week.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    > No surprise that daycare has raised the rate $30 per week. It cannot possibly be riding expenses for daycare operators.
- bradleyjg 5y ago
  We haven’t even tried. For healthcare, the last time I heard about bending the cost curve was during the Obama administration. For education, I’ve never seen any politician suggests we try to reign in cost growth—-just proposals around who should eat the costs. For housing, governments at all levels have been pulling every policy lever they can find to increase costs. Falling costs are wildly considered a national emergency. Why is it that progressives’ solution to everything is to dump money out of the air? Are there no structural improvements to be made anywhere?
  - 5y ago

sofixa 5y ago

Even if you fix those three, no parental leave is barbaric.

bradleyjg 5y ago
Is this kind of thing supposed to persuasive? You’ve presented no argument whatsoever. Is the idea that if use an emotionally laden term like “barbaric” you think it will browbeat people into falling into line with your opinion?
- sofixa 5y ago
  It was meant to illustrate that we're talking about separate things. "Fixing" three things getting more expensive doesn't in any way negate the barbarism that is no parental leave. Even if you think that them getting cheaper will mean the return of a stay at home parent (assuming they actually want it), it's still barbaric not to give the other parent an opportunity to spend time and help with the infant.
- dralley 5y ago
  This is one of those things that shouldn't need to be explained, even to 20-something tech bros who've never had a child themselves.
  - bradleyjg 5y ago
    Of course not. Nothing needs to be explained or justified anymore. We have an entire generation so fully confident in the absolute correctness and obviousness of every single iota of their many strongly held moral opinions that even asking for an explanation offends them. And they can’t understand why they keep on failing to achieve their policy goals. PS: I don’t think there were too many <= 19 year olds signing up for hacker news in 2011.
    - dralley 5y ago
      > Of course not. Nothing needs to be explained or justified anymore. We have an entire generation so fully confident in the absolute correctness and obviousness of every single iota of their many strongly held moral opinions that even asking for an explanation offends them. Just to be clear hear, we're talking about parents being able to take care of their newborns and not being forced back to work after "2-4 weeks" as the OP stated.
    - jensensbutton 5y ago
      OK, please explain how fixing housing, healthcare, education will remove the need for parental leave. It's your argument, motivate it.
- epivosism 5y ago
  I think the request is fair. Be time-idempotent; imagine if you were talking to someone from the 15th century and they were SURE they were right about their crazy opinions. The meta-stable way to be reasonable is that as long as someone seems to be honestly asking the reasoning for your beliefs, and your principles, you should try to explain yourself, rather than just shut them down by repeating your assertion of correctness. Otherwise, how will you find out about the likely beliefs you hold right now, which our descendants will consider insane and evil? Forcing yourself to self-introspection is a good practice. I don't expect anyone to change their mind about this, but being able to explain to others your reasoning can also clear up your own views, and help convince your adversary much more effectively than the "just repeat your position" argument style.

lifeformed 5y ago

You mean there's a choice?! Cool, I'd be happy if we simply just fixed all the massive, complex problems of the entire economy over just having parental leave.

hattmall 5y ago
Of course there's a choice, there's a singular reason for the rising cost of all those things. Government intervention and injecting money into those markets. Costs will rise to absorb availability of funds. Give people virtually unlimited finding for higher education?? Expect costs to rise at a similar rate. Force everyone to buy insurance through a rigid process and heavily subsidize the worst possible coverage. Makes perfect sense that prices rise and quality deteriorates. Have the government lend trillions of dollars at low interest with minimal qualifications for housing. Expected outcome is realized. Same is happening with childcare. Government increases child care credit. No surprise that daycare has raised the rate $30 per week.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  > No surprise that daycare has raised the rate $30 per week. It cannot possibly be riding expenses for daycare operators.
bradleyjg 5y ago
We haven’t even tried. For healthcare, the last time I heard about bending the cost curve was during the Obama administration. For education, I’ve never seen any politician suggests we try to reign in cost growth—-just proposals around who should eat the costs. For housing, governments at all levels have been pulling every policy lever they can find to increase costs. Falling costs are wildly considered a national emergency. Why is it that progressives’ solution to everything is to dump money out of the air? Are there no structural improvements to be made anywhere?
- 5y ago