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I've wanted to like Sourcehut, was on a paid subscription and had been tracking its progress until I was made aware of this: https://sourcehut.org/blog/2021-01

I've wanted to like Sourcehut, was on a paid subscription and had been tracking its progress until I was made aware of this: https://sourcehut.org/blog/2021-01-13-regarding-ethics/ https://sourcehut.org/blog/2021-01-13-regarding-ethics/ https://lists.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/sr.ht-discuss/%3CfaFmBHWTBbMkA8x8iTLj4srJ4wlAXXKoOQKOAk5ZXI%40cp3-web-024.plabs.ch%3E https://lists.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/sr.ht-discuss/%3CfaFmBHWTBbMkA... I'm not from the US nor have I even set foot on it therefore I have zero impact on its politics, but I don't see Donald Trump as a "fascist" nor a "racist" or "white nationalist" despite knowing some of those characters do support him. I support a few of the policies he stood for and am not a leftist (I'm probably center-left when it comes to the US political compass but center-right everywhere else). Given what I know about US (tech-centric) politics what I read there boiled down to me as: "if you want to use Sourcehut you better never speak your mind on your political views". If you read this Drew and you want to clarify Sourcehut's stance on this: Did I overreact, was the blog's wording at the time maybe harsher than intended because of how the situation looked like at the moment, or am I just unwelcome in Sourcehut for stating that I "support" Donald Trump by some interpretation of the word? What about the people who actually supported/support/will support him (including voting), are they welcome in Sourcehut?

ddevault 5y ago
I believe that I addressed this sufficiently in the mailing list post you linked to: https://lists.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/sr.ht-discuss/%3CfaFmBHWTBbMkA8x8iTLj4srJ4wlAXXKoOQKOAk5ZXI%40cp3-web-024.plabs.ch%3E#%3CC8IG08TB8164.228CD4T7G92IT@taiga%3E https://lists.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/sr.ht-discuss/%3CfaFmBHWTBbMkA... > I'm not going to ask anyone how they voted. But open support for fascism, or other behaviors indicative of his platform (racism, insurrection, etc), have always been against the terms of service, and will get you booted off the platform. > There are not going to be political purges of SourceHut users, but we will not tolerate bigotry, and should we discover that any of our users are affiliated with organizations who do not uphold our values, we will ask them to leave. > Note with all terms of use violations, our policy is not to vanish anyone's account overnight. We will reach out, discuss the issue, and if a resolution cannot be found, we will secure an archive of your data for you and you're free to take it to any other host. > I'm going to shut down the discussion list for now, because I do not expect this to be productive. If you agree with the virtues we proclaimed today, then please spread the word to others. If you disagree, kindly show yourself the door. I have nothing further to add.
- igorkraw 5y ago
  Drew, I would like to balance the GP by voicing my deep respect for taking a visible stance for your beliefs and voicing opinions independent of the business impact it might have. Fascism and white nationalism are not just slurs to throw at political enemies but very specific behavioral patterns that I think any hacker that cares about free and open systems should recognise as harmful and should take steps to oppose it. Your work was already inspiring, but this just adds to it.
- emptysongglass 5y ago
  I'm not really a fan of figures glorified by either the left or right: Obama expanded black sites and took to drone bombings with a glee you'd not at all expect of his campaign platform but no one was excoriated or threatened with bans for siding with him. This is a world gone half-mad with intolerance on all sides. Tolerance, forbearance and mercy are the values once flown by the left not this cesspit of political pageantry we stew in. I didn't support Trump but I'd gladly hold out a hand of mercy to one who voted for him and seek to understand them with all the compassion I could muster. That's the stance we should be taking as a community.
  - ddevault 5y ago
    Trump provided an exceptional case, and this was published following the January 6th insurrection at the US Capitol, which GitHub had responded to by firing a Jewish employee for decrying white supremacy. It was under these conditions that this post was originally written, and these are the issues it addressed. To be clear, I think that Obama's actions were also horrible. We're not here to take sides, on the left or right or anywhere else, but instead to address problematic behaviors. Like I said earlier, I think enough has been said on this subject. Let's avoid derailing this thread any further with a laundry list of all of the bad things the powers that be are doing around us and what we ought to think and do about it. The practical questions of what behavior is not considered acceptable, and how we'll respond to such behavior, were answered in the email thread linked to above. I hope that sufficiently addresses your concerns. Cheers!
stevemirr 5y ago
> There are not going to be political purges of SourceHut users, but we will not tolerate bigotry, and should we discover that any of our users are affiliated with organizations who do not uphold our values, we will ask them to leave. Yikes. That... sounds like a political purge. I'm not interested in US politics, but I'm also not keen to see that. On the plus side, if Sourcehut do decide to enact that, people are able to host their own version.

ddevault 5y ago

I believe that I addressed this sufficiently in the mailing list post you linked to: https://lists.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/sr.ht-discuss/%3CfaFmBHWTBbMkA8x8iTLj4srJ4wlAXXKoOQKOAk5ZXI%40cp3-web-024.plabs.ch%3E#%3CC8IG08TB8164.228CD4T7G92IT@taiga%3E https://lists.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/sr.ht-discuss/%3CfaFmBHWTBbMkA... > I'm not going to ask anyone how they voted. But open support for fascism, or other behaviors indicative of his platform (racism, insurrection, etc), have always been against the terms of service, and will get you booted off the platform. > There are not going to be political purges of SourceHut users, but we will not tolerate bigotry, and should we discover that any of our users are affiliated with organizations who do not uphold our values, we will ask them to leave. > Note with all terms of use violations, our policy is not to vanish anyone's account overnight. We will reach out, discuss the issue, and if a resolution cannot be found, we will secure an archive of your data for you and you're free to take it to any other host. > I'm going to shut down the discussion list for now, because I do not expect this to be productive. If you agree with the virtues we proclaimed today, then please spread the word to others. If you disagree, kindly show yourself the door. I have nothing further to add.

igorkraw 5y ago
Drew, I would like to balance the GP by voicing my deep respect for taking a visible stance for your beliefs and voicing opinions independent of the business impact it might have. Fascism and white nationalism are not just slurs to throw at political enemies but very specific behavioral patterns that I think any hacker that cares about free and open systems should recognise as harmful and should take steps to oppose it. Your work was already inspiring, but this just adds to it.
emptysongglass 5y ago
I'm not really a fan of figures glorified by either the left or right: Obama expanded black sites and took to drone bombings with a glee you'd not at all expect of his campaign platform but no one was excoriated or threatened with bans for siding with him. This is a world gone half-mad with intolerance on all sides. Tolerance, forbearance and mercy are the values once flown by the left not this cesspit of political pageantry we stew in. I didn't support Trump but I'd gladly hold out a hand of mercy to one who voted for him and seek to understand them with all the compassion I could muster. That's the stance we should be taking as a community.
- ddevault 5y ago
  Trump provided an exceptional case, and this was published following the January 6th insurrection at the US Capitol, which GitHub had responded to by firing a Jewish employee for decrying white supremacy. It was under these conditions that this post was originally written, and these are the issues it addressed. To be clear, I think that Obama's actions were also horrible. We're not here to take sides, on the left or right or anywhere else, but instead to address problematic behaviors. Like I said earlier, I think enough has been said on this subject. Let's avoid derailing this thread any further with a laundry list of all of the bad things the powers that be are doing around us and what we ought to think and do about it. The practical questions of what behavior is not considered acceptable, and how we'll respond to such behavior, were answered in the email thread linked to above. I hope that sufficiently addresses your concerns. Cheers!

stevemirr 5y ago

> There are not going to be political purges of SourceHut users, but we will not tolerate bigotry, and should we discover that any of our users are affiliated with organizations who do not uphold our values, we will ask them to leave. Yikes. That... sounds like a political purge. I'm not interested in US politics, but I'm also not keen to see that. On the plus side, if Sourcehut do decide to enact that, people are able to host their own version.