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> Maybe you should not live somewhere so expensive .. What should e.g. waiters / waitresses do then? Drive to work for hours every day so they can serve coffee

> Maybe you should not live somewhere so expensive .. What should e.g. waiters / waitresses do then? Drive to work for hours every day so they can serve coffee to those who can afford to live where they need to work? You make it sound simple but it is not.

charcircuit 5y ago
idk find another job maybe
Auracle 5y ago
I mean, that’s an example where they could easily move. You can wait tables anywhere. Eventually there wouldn’t be enough in cities and they’d have to raise wages to equalize, but a lot of people can’t even envision not living in a mega-city.
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  "Easily" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that first sentence. Moving is very expensive, and requires a lot of spare capital and time off. Renting trucks, breaking leases, paying deposits, and not working all burn through money pretty quickly. It's also logistically tricky, as often you have to land a job before moving because landlords want to see a job and income before letting you move, and low skill jobs don't want to hire someone in the indeterminate future. And you also need to consider social networks. Poor people depend heavily on their existing social network for financial safety. Having a social safety network when things go poorly is the difference between having a bad time and going homeless. Moving to a new area involves potentially shedding that safety network, which is a high risk high reward maneuver. Often for those on the edge of financial ruin the potential downsides emotionally dominate the potential upsides, which is unsurprising if you've ever experienced poverty. Can it be done? sure. People do do it, after all. But it's difficult, risky, and expensive. If you ever find yourself wondering why most people don't do something that's "easily" done, then chances are it's less about people being lazy or dumb and more about there being factors you've missed. > but a lot of people can’t even envision not living in a mega-city. I think the snide tone here is completely unwarranted. It's not that people "can't even envision not living in a mega-city", they live there for a variety of perfectly rational reasons. If you've ever talked with the working class in those "mega-cities", a lot of them would absolutely love to move to at least a smaller city, but feel like they can't because of everything I said above. And even outside those mega cities it's not like everything is perfect either; there's not some magical utopia in Kansas or wherever with high wages and low COL that the workers are too stupid or too myopic to move to. Most of the areas with jobs are also expensive, and getting more expensive still. Places that are actually cheap are cheap because there isn't a lot of work to do, because they're unpleasant places to actually live, or because they involve a hellacious commute into the areas where the jobs are. The commute thing might sound petty if you have a new car, but it's a big problem if you're poor. Long commutes cost more in gasoline and maintenance, and an unexpected breakage can put savings (if any exist) and jobs at risk. Nevermind that adding a long commute might not be possible on top of the hours required to float the household financially.

charcircuit 5y ago

idk find another job maybe

Auracle 5y ago

I mean, that’s an example where they could easily move. You can wait tables anywhere. Eventually there wouldn’t be enough in cities and they’d have to raise wages to equalize, but a lot of people can’t even envision not living in a mega-city.

ashtonkem 5y ago
"Easily" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that first sentence. Moving is very expensive, and requires a lot of spare capital and time off. Renting trucks, breaking leases, paying deposits, and not working all burn through money pretty quickly. It's also logistically tricky, as often you have to land a job before moving because landlords want to see a job and income before letting you move, and low skill jobs don't want to hire someone in the indeterminate future. And you also need to consider social networks. Poor people depend heavily on their existing social network for financial safety. Having a social safety network when things go poorly is the difference between having a bad time and going homeless. Moving to a new area involves potentially shedding that safety network, which is a high risk high reward maneuver. Often for those on the edge of financial ruin the potential downsides emotionally dominate the potential upsides, which is unsurprising if you've ever experienced poverty. Can it be done? sure. People do do it, after all. But it's difficult, risky, and expensive. If you ever find yourself wondering why most people don't do something that's "easily" done, then chances are it's less about people being lazy or dumb and more about there being factors you've missed. > but a lot of people can’t even envision not living in a mega-city. I think the snide tone here is completely unwarranted. It's not that people "can't even envision not living in a mega-city", they live there for a variety of perfectly rational reasons. If you've ever talked with the working class in those "mega-cities", a lot of them would absolutely love to move to at least a smaller city, but feel like they can't because of everything I said above. And even outside those mega cities it's not like everything is perfect either; there's not some magical utopia in Kansas or wherever with high wages and low COL that the workers are too stupid or too myopic to move to. Most of the areas with jobs are also expensive, and getting more expensive still. Places that are actually cheap are cheap because there isn't a lot of work to do, because they're unpleasant places to actually live, or because they involve a hellacious commute into the areas where the jobs are. The commute thing might sound petty if you have a new car, but it's a big problem if you're poor. Long commutes cost more in gasoline and maintenance, and an unexpected breakage can put savings (if any exist) and jobs at risk. Nevermind that adding a long commute might not be possible on top of the hours required to float the household financially.