3 ms·

Financially sure we face more pressure. But let’s be honest that modern society is practically a utopia compared to being drafted into WW2 and facing carnage an

by TimPC 5y ago

Financially sure we face more pressure. But let’s be honest that modern society is practically a utopia compared to being drafted into WW2 and facing carnage and death.

pdimitar 5y ago
Cherry picking makes no argument any favours. :P I agree on WW2, sure, but after WW2? I've spoken with 30+ elders and they all unanimously agree that life in general was much, much better than today. Mostly in terms of upwards social mobility. An insane amount of very regular bank tellers could afford house, two apartments and 2-3 cars. And to put 3 kids in an university. Nowadays that's a very questionable endeavour.
- groby_b 5y ago
  I'd strongly suggest looking for supporting data. If you talk to people, you will inevitably hear that "the good old times" were better than what we have. In the 1950s, the average house was still ~3 years of average income. Cars were about 9 months of income. So the "regular bank teller" with a house, 2 apartments, and 3 cars... there's something missing in the story. Let's not even get into the fact that life was significantly worse if you happened to be not white or male. Black people didn't have their voting rights significantly curtailed via Jim Crow laws. Married women didn't have the ability to have their own money. Beating your spouse was A-OK. Yes, social mobility was better (for white men). Universities were cheaper (a year of tuition was still ~1-2 months of income). Medical care was... not so good. Nutrition a non-existent concept. (And before we go to the "all natural food", quick reminder that the 1950s were the decade of TV dinners and truly atrocious recipes) The 50's certainly had less of the constant stream of demands that our current time has. It's not like it was purely worse, or the "golden age" image wouldn't hold. But as a net, across the population, we've seen improvement. We are backsliding the last ~20 years, absolutely. But we're still not in 1950.
  - pdimitar 5y ago
    > In the 1950s, the average house was still ~3 years of average income. Today you'd be lucky if that's 10 years; most likely very well paid too. For most people with well-paid jobs it's 15, and for everybody else it's a lifetime endeavour (20-30). Not sure how you're contradicting me exactly with this. I guess we are both showing bias and filter bubble effects. I live in a poor country and even if I am not poor myself, how almost everybody around me lives is sadly too visible.
  - golemiprague 5y ago
    Is it so much better for black people these days to grow up without a dad in some crappy neighbourhood with gun shots every weekend comparing to growing up in a family in a peaceful neighbourhood in the 50'? I am not so sure and I don't see so much intermixing with the rest of the American society, blacks still interact mainly among themselves so it is not that different from the times when this kind of segregation was institutionalised. Women also don't seem to be that thrilled from their current situation, who said being another HR manager is better than being a housewife? From the amount of complains you hear about how hard it is to be black or a woman these days it seems like they are much less happy, at least subjectively.
sg47 5y ago
With WW2, people had a clear goal to look forward to. Ending the war. Today, people are drifting aimlessly and just go through life which causes more dissatisfaction than being in the middle of a war.
- pdimitar 5y ago
  A ton of people today would work towards very noble goals, if they weren't stuck on a survival hamster wheel. Lack of clear goal? Talk for yourself.
- burntoutfire 5y ago
  For people in occupied countries (Europe and elsewhere), the goal was to merely survive the war and deal with the fallout (death of relatives, destruction of property). Even with drafts, US was a paradise on earth during 1939-1945 compared to much of the world.

by TimPC 5y ago

Financially sure we face more pressure. But let’s be honest that modern society is practically a utopia compared to being drafted into WW2 and facing carnage and death.

pdimitar 5y ago

Cherry picking makes no argument any favours. :P I agree on WW2, sure, but after WW2? I've spoken with 30+ elders and they all unanimously agree that life in general was much, much better than today. Mostly in terms of upwards social mobility. An insane amount of very regular bank tellers could afford house, two apartments and 2-3 cars. And to put 3 kids in an university. Nowadays that's a very questionable endeavour.

groby_b 5y ago
I'd strongly suggest looking for supporting data. If you talk to people, you will inevitably hear that "the good old times" were better than what we have. In the 1950s, the average house was still ~3 years of average income. Cars were about 9 months of income. So the "regular bank teller" with a house, 2 apartments, and 3 cars... there's something missing in the story. Let's not even get into the fact that life was significantly worse if you happened to be not white or male. Black people didn't have their voting rights significantly curtailed via Jim Crow laws. Married women didn't have the ability to have their own money. Beating your spouse was A-OK. Yes, social mobility was better (for white men). Universities were cheaper (a year of tuition was still ~1-2 months of income). Medical care was... not so good. Nutrition a non-existent concept. (And before we go to the "all natural food", quick reminder that the 1950s were the decade of TV dinners and truly atrocious recipes) The 50's certainly had less of the constant stream of demands that our current time has. It's not like it was purely worse, or the "golden age" image wouldn't hold. But as a net, across the population, we've seen improvement. We are backsliding the last ~20 years, absolutely. But we're still not in 1950.
- pdimitar 5y ago
  > In the 1950s, the average house was still ~3 years of average income. Today you'd be lucky if that's 10 years; most likely very well paid too. For most people with well-paid jobs it's 15, and for everybody else it's a lifetime endeavour (20-30). Not sure how you're contradicting me exactly with this. I guess we are both showing bias and filter bubble effects. I live in a poor country and even if I am not poor myself, how almost everybody around me lives is sadly too visible.
- golemiprague 5y ago
  Is it so much better for black people these days to grow up without a dad in some crappy neighbourhood with gun shots every weekend comparing to growing up in a family in a peaceful neighbourhood in the 50'? I am not so sure and I don't see so much intermixing with the rest of the American society, blacks still interact mainly among themselves so it is not that different from the times when this kind of segregation was institutionalised. Women also don't seem to be that thrilled from their current situation, who said being another HR manager is better than being a housewife? From the amount of complains you hear about how hard it is to be black or a woman these days it seems like they are much less happy, at least subjectively.

sg47 5y ago

With WW2, people had a clear goal to look forward to. Ending the war. Today, people are drifting aimlessly and just go through life which causes more dissatisfaction than being in the middle of a war.

pdimitar 5y ago
A ton of people today would work towards very noble goals, if they weren't stuck on a survival hamster wheel. Lack of clear goal? Talk for yourself.
burntoutfire 5y ago
For people in occupied countries (Europe and elsewhere), the goal was to merely survive the war and deal with the fallout (death of relatives, destruction of property). Even with drafts, US was a paradise on earth during 1939-1945 compared to much of the world.