5 ms·

I really can't understand how can a newborn be separated from his mother at the age of 12 weeks.

by helge9210 5y ago

zwirbl 5y ago
The free market will also fix this, you'll see /s
- Traubenfuchs 5y ago
  It would if people would just stop having children beyond their means. But they continue to do so and then cry about it.
lotsofpulp 5y ago
Because we have formula and breast pumps. Whether or not they should is apparently irrelevant to many US voters.
endisneigh 5y ago
I very much support paid parental leave, but having to go to work isn’t really being “separated,” in the sense that it’s forced or non-voluntary. Plenty of women (and men) can and do just stay with their child, paid or unpaid. Many permanently do so.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
merpnderp 5y ago
Generations of kids have grown up this way without issue. Sleeping 7/8 hours at a daycare is barely different than sleeping 7/8 hours at home. And the other hour bing broken up while being held with a bottle and a diaper change.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  I can only assume you have no experience of what breast pumping entails, and the biological and chemical effects of a mother breastfeeding her baby. It is not true that it is "without issue". Not being able to directly breastfeed your baby leads to many downsides, even just mechanical ones. Such as decreased or erratic milk production, clogged nipple ducts, engorged breasts, all which are greatly reduced when an infant feeds from the breast. Not to mention the effects of oxytocin on the mother's healing body from having skin to skin contact with the baby. The effects are extremely complex, I do not even see how you can measure them to claim dropping an infant off at daycare is "without issue". If you also cared for an infant, you would also know they don't sleep 7 hours, and feed 1 hour. They feed every 2 hours, and they can take anywhere from 10 min to 45 min to feed every time. And every time, the infant will need to be burped, or maybe they will need to poop and the mom has to wait that process out, and then go back to feeding. And to keep up this production while the infant is at daycare, the mom has to pump every 2 hours. Which means going to the pumping room, taking out the pump equipment, cleaning the pump equipment, storing (refrigerated or frozen) and transporting the breast milk, heating it up.
  - merpnderp 5y ago
    Yes, I've raised kids. Mine were only up maybe 30 minutes every 2-3 hours when born. And there are 16 hours when a mom isn't working to have all those benefits you discussed. And if you can find a study that says there's a discernible difference in childhood outcomes based on those additional 8 hours of contact between a child and mother, I'd love to see it because I can't imagine in all the factors that involve childhood, those 8 hours difference (for a few months) are detectible.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      Subtract commuting time, pumping time, getting ready time, etc out of those 16 hours. And no, there is not going to be a study that shows a discernible difference in childhood outcomes. That’s an immeasurable metric. But it is known that babies extract milk and regulate milk production much preferably compared to pumps, from the woman and the baby’s perspective. And that benefit alone is worth the 0.1% a nation shaves off its GDP. Sounds like you had some awesome babies. My kids took at least 1 hour to feed each time between latching, burping, puking, pooping, being fussy, and falling asleep while feeding. Seeing what my wife went through even with 6 months of leave, I would want my daughter to have better. Obviously we can toss the kids in daycare and put the moms back to work and put the pumping burden on them. And then watch the data show the length of time kids drink breastmilk go down. Or we can step back and evaluate why the most “advanced” and “prosperous” society cannot give its women a year to raise their infant and protect their job.
zarzavat 5y ago
At the intersection of capitalism and feminism. On one end of the spectrum you have certain European countries where women receive ample maternity leave. The right to have a family is protected by law. On the other end of the spectrum you have certain countries where married women are not expected to work. The right to have a family is protected by traditional beliefs and customs. But there is this nasty area in the middle where married women are expected to work but there's few workers rights - having a family becomes a privilege rather than a right.

I really can't understand how can a newborn be separated from his mother at the age of 12 weeks.

zwirbl 5y ago

The free market will also fix this, you'll see /s

Traubenfuchs 5y ago
It would if people would just stop having children beyond their means. But they continue to do so and then cry about it.

lotsofpulp 5y ago

Because we have formula and breast pumps. Whether or not they should is apparently irrelevant to many US voters.

endisneigh 5y ago

I very much support paid parental leave, but having to go to work isn’t really being “separated,” in the sense that it’s forced or non-voluntary. Plenty of women (and men) can and do just stay with their child, paid or unpaid. Many permanently do so.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

merpnderp 5y ago

Generations of kids have grown up this way without issue. Sleeping 7/8 hours at a daycare is barely different than sleeping 7/8 hours at home. And the other hour bing broken up while being held with a bottle and a diaper change.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
I can only assume you have no experience of what breast pumping entails, and the biological and chemical effects of a mother breastfeeding her baby. It is not true that it is "without issue". Not being able to directly breastfeed your baby leads to many downsides, even just mechanical ones. Such as decreased or erratic milk production, clogged nipple ducts, engorged breasts, all which are greatly reduced when an infant feeds from the breast. Not to mention the effects of oxytocin on the mother's healing body from having skin to skin contact with the baby. The effects are extremely complex, I do not even see how you can measure them to claim dropping an infant off at daycare is "without issue". If you also cared for an infant, you would also know they don't sleep 7 hours, and feed 1 hour. They feed every 2 hours, and they can take anywhere from 10 min to 45 min to feed every time. And every time, the infant will need to be burped, or maybe they will need to poop and the mom has to wait that process out, and then go back to feeding. And to keep up this production while the infant is at daycare, the mom has to pump every 2 hours. Which means going to the pumping room, taking out the pump equipment, cleaning the pump equipment, storing (refrigerated or frozen) and transporting the breast milk, heating it up.
- merpnderp 5y ago
  Yes, I've raised kids. Mine were only up maybe 30 minutes every 2-3 hours when born. And there are 16 hours when a mom isn't working to have all those benefits you discussed. And if you can find a study that says there's a discernible difference in childhood outcomes based on those additional 8 hours of contact between a child and mother, I'd love to see it because I can't imagine in all the factors that involve childhood, those 8 hours difference (for a few months) are detectible.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    Subtract commuting time, pumping time, getting ready time, etc out of those 16 hours. And no, there is not going to be a study that shows a discernible difference in childhood outcomes. That’s an immeasurable metric. But it is known that babies extract milk and regulate milk production much preferably compared to pumps, from the woman and the baby’s perspective. And that benefit alone is worth the 0.1% a nation shaves off its GDP. Sounds like you had some awesome babies. My kids took at least 1 hour to feed each time between latching, burping, puking, pooping, being fussy, and falling asleep while feeding. Seeing what my wife went through even with 6 months of leave, I would want my daughter to have better. Obviously we can toss the kids in daycare and put the moms back to work and put the pumping burden on them. And then watch the data show the length of time kids drink breastmilk go down. Or we can step back and evaluate why the most “advanced” and “prosperous” society cannot give its women a year to raise their infant and protect their job.

zarzavat 5y ago

At the intersection of capitalism and feminism. On one end of the spectrum you have certain European countries where women receive ample maternity leave. The right to have a family is protected by law. On the other end of the spectrum you have certain countries where married women are not expected to work. The right to have a family is protected by traditional beliefs and customs. But there is this nasty area in the middle where married women are expected to work but there's few workers rights - having a family becomes a privilege rather than a right.