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Yeah, let's spread this out-of-context take on depression from someone who is not a mental health professional. Fucking bullshit. Depression lies to you. And,

Yeah, let's spread this out-of-context take on depression from someone who is not a mental health professional. Fucking bullshit. Depression lies to you. And, once you live with it long enough, you know it lies to you. You know that the voice that tells you that nothing is worth doing is not speaking truly. You know that the voice that says that there's nothing, absolutely nothing that will ever bring joy to you, and that there is nothing to look forward to, neither tomorrow nor any time in the future - you know it's not speaking truly. You know that the voice that tells you that you are worthless, that you are a burden, that you are nothing but a disappointment and a waste of everything that was given to you, and everyone would have been better off if you removed yourself from that equation because all you do is let everyone else down - you know that that voice is lying to you. Often enough you know it's lying, in particular, about you being not just unworthy of love, but inherently unlovable because people who love you tell you they do, and you know they are speaking the truth. You know that voice is lying, and yet you believe it, you believe it as strongly as anything can be believed, and you wave away everyone else. That's the bitch part of depression: you can't logic it away. You know your brain is sabotaging you, and you just roll along until, for whatever reason, you can't anymore. And yet even after bouncing up from that abyss, the next time you end up there, that voice will sounds as convincing as it ever did.

Klesio 5y ago
Is it? While my mother sees life as the gift, I don't. Is there any viewpoint which makes it valid to accept that existence might just not be worth it in every case? Might we as a society not start talking about it in a way that perhaps lifing as long as possible might just not be the right thing for everyone? Does it make my life any better or worth having played even more games? Have been drunk over and.over again? Going to bed the 12801th time? Ha ing to stay fit? Seeing another movie? Yes I get it. The social norms is being alive otherwise our society would not work. But there could be a society were not necessarily lifing for ever might just not be stigmatized and become more normal. I'm at the point we're I have the feeling that I starve for new/different stimulation. Perhaps my way of thinking (ADHS) might just not be that compatible with the avg?
basisword 5y ago
It’s very similar with anxiety. You have the specific fears preventing you from doing something, know that they’re nonsense rationally and yet you continue to believe them completely. It’s difficult to understand unless you’ve experienced it. This is why exposure can help. You face the fear and prove to yourself it’s nonsense. Next time you will believe the nonsense a little less and with repeated exposure you eventually only believe the rational belief or at least the belief will have swung enough in that direction you are joking inhibited. It’s a pity there isn’t a similar technique for dealing with depression.
- romwell 5y ago
  I fully agree. Hitting rock bottom (in a given situation) can make one realize that it isn't that bad. It's still not perfect; e.g. the anxiety over being fired can be overwhelming even if you know that it's not the end of the world, and that the state of anxiety is worse than the state of not being at that job anymore. Depression and anxiety go hand in hand though, so exposure helping anxiety can have a positive effect on depression.
podgaj 5y ago
> Depression lies to you. And, once you live with it long enough, you know it lies to you. This is why people with depression suffer, because they do not want to see the truth depression unveils. So they fight and fight and fight. Can you be ok with nothing ever bringing you happiness? I asked that question to myself, I finally said yes. It was a spiritual moment. Joy at last! No more happiness! Why do you think happiness is a truth and depression is a lie? That is only your preference.
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  "Can you be ok with nothing ever bringing you happiness? I asked that question to myself, I finally said yes. It was a spiritual moment. Joy at last! No more happiness" It seems like you tricked yourself, to put the pressure away of "must getting happy again" and felt the joy (which is happiness, no?) of being relieved of that stress.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    I would argue that joy and happiness are not the same thing. I have difficulty articulating it, but I think Ursula Le Guin expresses it well (because of course she does) in The Left Hand of Darkness: "I am not trying to say that I was happy, during those weeks of hauling a sledge across an ice-sheet in the dead of winter. I was hungry, overstrained, and often anxious, and it all got worse the longer it went on. I certainly wasn’t happy. Happiness has to do with reason, and only reason earns it. What I was given was the thing you can’t earn, and can’t keep, and often don’t even recognize at the time; I mean joy."
  - podgaj 5y ago
    It was not a trick, it was a deep understanding that changed me permanently.
    - romwell 5y ago
      Understanding that it's OK to be broken and sad, even if it's always like that, is something everyone needs to learn, and the culture is changing to this understanding being the norm. Have you read Winnie-the-Pooh? I think the book, more so than the cartoon, reinforces that. Eeyore is perpetually and, seemingly, irreparably sad and unhappy, and yet it's just a trait that Eeyore has, not a flaw. Other characters are there for him, but his sadness is accepted. Some of us are like Eeyore; and we should treat ourselves the way Eeyore was treated by others. That lesson was, sadly, ignored.
hbn 5y ago
I can relate much more to the other quote about depression than your take. There's plenty of logical reasons to be miserable. Spending too much time thinking can cause depressing realizations. "A wandering mind is an unhappy mind." Here's a thought: no matter what I do, I'm going to die someday and not too long after will likely be forgotten. The most likely way I could be remembered for longer is to be hated by lots of people. Even if for some reason I was remembered as a liked person, I'll either be forgotten in the fall of civilization and, unrealistic but best-case-scenario, the heat death of the universe. That's not a voice in my head lying to me, that's all true. If you want to get into the argument of "none of that matters, the enjoyment to find in life is all the experiences along the way," that's something else entirely. But it doesn't mean those upsetting thoughts are a voice in my head "lying" to me.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- seanw444 5y ago
  I find the quote fairly fitting as well.
- romwell 5y ago
  Well what you resonate with is melancholy, sadness, misery — not depression. Depression is knowing that, say, being stuck in that relationship/job/location makes you miserable, knowing that you can and should get out or otherwise change the environment that's crushing you — and still believing the voice telling you that you should lay low and do nothing about it, that nothing you do matters and you shouldn't try to change it. >enjoyment to find in life is all the experiences along the way Depression is not enjoying anything anymore. Imagine all your favorite food suddenly tasting like paper. It's the same, but with everything you've ever done. Depression will tell you that this is just how things are from now on, and forever. That it's pointless to even try. Depression is not lack of happiness. Sadness, melancholy, even misery and pain aren't depression. I sincerely wish that nobody would resonate with what I'm writing here. But I know that there are many who would. And I want them to know that the voice telling all these things isn't you and is just fake news that your lizard brain broadcasts as a protective response to something that isn't even there. Being trapped in a bad job isn't the same as being trapped in a literal lion's den, but your lizard brain can't tell the difference.
_game_of_life 5y ago
I have fallen into many pits of depression over almost 20 years now, even now I am struggling to get out of a deep one. Seems this is just a cycle in my life, unfortunately. You can't logic yourself out of beliefs, I completely get that. Once you realize how depressed you are, you're usually also mired in terrible thoughts and negativity. But in my experience, I HAVE to try to logic myself out of patterns of behaviors. I also need to fight those beliefs, as futile as it seems. Hear me out here: I think one of the most toxic things was when I thought it was a chemical imbalance completely out of my control -- so there was nothing I could do but take pills and passively wait for my brain chemistry to correct itself. I have recovered from like 4 or 5 episodes of major depression now, and the key for me every time has been a) realizing I'm depressed b) waiting for/creating a day when I have the energy to think and address this, and then c) reflecting on and fighting against thoughts and behaviours extending/reinforcing the depression. Obviously this is a messy and inefficient process with a lot of slippage. And maybe it doesn't work for other people, or maybe I've got something else wrong with me than just major depression, and that's why it works. Anyways, not trying to invalidate your experience, just sharing what I've found works for me.
- romwell 5y ago
  No, I'm with you here. The meds are there to help you change the circumstances that drove you into that state. One still has to the work. That's to say, the meds may make step (b) easier. The rest is the same. That way out, at the moment, might feel illogical because your logic is ill. Or at least to me it does; for the same reasons it felt "messy", inefficient, and slippery to you. What use is logic when the axioms are flawed? But I digress. I'm not aware of any other way. That a-b-c of yours is what the meds and therapy may help with, but otherwise that's the path, messy and slippery as it is.
birksherty 5y ago
> Fucking bullshit No it's not. The quote is true. People who are not depressed treat it as a disease. But life truly is a trauma for most people, yet we are supposed to be optimistic disregarding the truth. It takes some medicine/chemical or copium that makes it look beautiful and everything is ok. Lots of people just never think too much and do whatever they are supposed to do, so not depressed.
- romwell 5y ago
  Have you ever taken antidepressants? Are you speaking from experience? Because I haven't heard of antidepressants making everything look beautiful. What they do is give you some control over the "play dead" response to give you an ability to get out or at least do something about that life of trauma. The meds aren't for coping. They are for helping you do the work needed to be in a better place. There's just no fucking way that the voice that tells people that they may only ever be a burden is coming from outside reality. There is zero truth in the voice that tells you that your untimely death will not negatively affect anyone else. There's zero truth in the voice that tells you that it's your duty to the world to make that happen sooner rather than later. >People who are not depressed treat it as a disease So do people who are depressed. Illness is what it is. We're talking about different things.
  - birksherty 5y ago
    I meant saying life is beautiful like non-depressed people. Yeah may be different types of depression. I'm talking about the quote. Life is not all happy thing, some people know this and want out of this; which they are forced with to live until dying horribly, most time it's horrible sad death honestly. Acknowledging true nature of life and not wanting to continue the misery is not illness.
    - romwell 5y ago
      There's a huge gap between "acknowledging true nature of life" (that it's not all roses and ponies, that there's pain and misery) and "not wanting to continue the misery".

Klesio 5y ago

Is it? While my mother sees life as the gift, I don't. Is there any viewpoint which makes it valid to accept that existence might just not be worth it in every case? Might we as a society not start talking about it in a way that perhaps lifing as long as possible might just not be the right thing for everyone? Does it make my life any better or worth having played even more games? Have been drunk over and.over again? Going to bed the 12801th time? Ha ing to stay fit? Seeing another movie? Yes I get it. The social norms is being alive otherwise our society would not work. But there could be a society were not necessarily lifing for ever might just not be stigmatized and become more normal. I'm at the point we're I have the feeling that I starve for new/different stimulation. Perhaps my way of thinking (ADHS) might just not be that compatible with the avg?

basisword 5y ago

It’s very similar with anxiety. You have the specific fears preventing you from doing something, know that they’re nonsense rationally and yet you continue to believe them completely. It’s difficult to understand unless you’ve experienced it. This is why exposure can help. You face the fear and prove to yourself it’s nonsense. Next time you will believe the nonsense a little less and with repeated exposure you eventually only believe the rational belief or at least the belief will have swung enough in that direction you are joking inhibited. It’s a pity there isn’t a similar technique for dealing with depression.

romwell 5y ago
I fully agree. Hitting rock bottom (in a given situation) can make one realize that it isn't that bad. It's still not perfect; e.g. the anxiety over being fired can be overwhelming even if you know that it's not the end of the world, and that the state of anxiety is worse than the state of not being at that job anymore. Depression and anxiety go hand in hand though, so exposure helping anxiety can have a positive effect on depression.

podgaj 5y ago

> Depression lies to you. And, once you live with it long enough, you know it lies to you. This is why people with depression suffer, because they do not want to see the truth depression unveils. So they fight and fight and fight. Can you be ok with nothing ever bringing you happiness? I asked that question to myself, I finally said yes. It was a spiritual moment. Joy at last! No more happiness! Why do you think happiness is a truth and depression is a lie? That is only your preference.

hutzlibu 5y ago
"Can you be ok with nothing ever bringing you happiness? I asked that question to myself, I finally said yes. It was a spiritual moment. Joy at last! No more happiness" It seems like you tricked yourself, to put the pressure away of "must getting happy again" and felt the joy (which is happiness, no?) of being relieved of that stress.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  I would argue that joy and happiness are not the same thing. I have difficulty articulating it, but I think Ursula Le Guin expresses it well (because of course she does) in The Left Hand of Darkness: "I am not trying to say that I was happy, during those weeks of hauling a sledge across an ice-sheet in the dead of winter. I was hungry, overstrained, and often anxious, and it all got worse the longer it went on. I certainly wasn’t happy. Happiness has to do with reason, and only reason earns it. What I was given was the thing you can’t earn, and can’t keep, and often don’t even recognize at the time; I mean joy."
- podgaj 5y ago
  It was not a trick, it was a deep understanding that changed me permanently.
  - romwell 5y ago
    Understanding that it's OK to be broken and sad, even if it's always like that, is something everyone needs to learn, and the culture is changing to this understanding being the norm. Have you read Winnie-the-Pooh? I think the book, more so than the cartoon, reinforces that. Eeyore is perpetually and, seemingly, irreparably sad and unhappy, and yet it's just a trait that Eeyore has, not a flaw. Other characters are there for him, but his sadness is accepted. Some of us are like Eeyore; and we should treat ourselves the way Eeyore was treated by others. That lesson was, sadly, ignored.

hbn 5y ago

I can relate much more to the other quote about depression than your take. There's plenty of logical reasons to be miserable. Spending too much time thinking can cause depressing realizations. "A wandering mind is an unhappy mind." Here's a thought: no matter what I do, I'm going to die someday and not too long after will likely be forgotten. The most likely way I could be remembered for longer is to be hated by lots of people. Even if for some reason I was remembered as a liked person, I'll either be forgotten in the fall of civilization and, unrealistic but best-case-scenario, the heat death of the universe. That's not a voice in my head lying to me, that's all true. If you want to get into the argument of "none of that matters, the enjoyment to find in life is all the experiences along the way," that's something else entirely. But it doesn't mean those upsetting thoughts are a voice in my head "lying" to me.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
seanw444 5y ago
I find the quote fairly fitting as well.
romwell 5y ago
Well what you resonate with is melancholy, sadness, misery — not depression. Depression is knowing that, say, being stuck in that relationship/job/location makes you miserable, knowing that you can and should get out or otherwise change the environment that's crushing you — and still believing the voice telling you that you should lay low and do nothing about it, that nothing you do matters and you shouldn't try to change it. >enjoyment to find in life is all the experiences along the way Depression is not enjoying anything anymore. Imagine all your favorite food suddenly tasting like paper. It's the same, but with everything you've ever done. Depression will tell you that this is just how things are from now on, and forever. That it's pointless to even try. Depression is not lack of happiness. Sadness, melancholy, even misery and pain aren't depression. I sincerely wish that nobody would resonate with what I'm writing here. But I know that there are many who would. And I want them to know that the voice telling all these things isn't you and is just fake news that your lizard brain broadcasts as a protective response to something that isn't even there. Being trapped in a bad job isn't the same as being trapped in a literal lion's den, but your lizard brain can't tell the difference.

_game_of_life 5y ago

I have fallen into many pits of depression over almost 20 years now, even now I am struggling to get out of a deep one. Seems this is just a cycle in my life, unfortunately. You can't logic yourself out of beliefs, I completely get that. Once you realize how depressed you are, you're usually also mired in terrible thoughts and negativity. But in my experience, I HAVE to try to logic myself out of patterns of behaviors. I also need to fight those beliefs, as futile as it seems. Hear me out here: I think one of the most toxic things was when I thought it was a chemical imbalance completely out of my control -- so there was nothing I could do but take pills and passively wait for my brain chemistry to correct itself. I have recovered from like 4 or 5 episodes of major depression now, and the key for me every time has been a) realizing I'm depressed b) waiting for/creating a day when I have the energy to think and address this, and then c) reflecting on and fighting against thoughts and behaviours extending/reinforcing the depression. Obviously this is a messy and inefficient process with a lot of slippage. And maybe it doesn't work for other people, or maybe I've got something else wrong with me than just major depression, and that's why it works. Anyways, not trying to invalidate your experience, just sharing what I've found works for me.

romwell 5y ago
No, I'm with you here. The meds are there to help you change the circumstances that drove you into that state. One still has to the work. That's to say, the meds may make step (b) easier. The rest is the same. That way out, at the moment, might feel illogical because your logic is ill. Or at least to me it does; for the same reasons it felt "messy", inefficient, and slippery to you. What use is logic when the axioms are flawed? But I digress. I'm not aware of any other way. That a-b-c of yours is what the meds and therapy may help with, but otherwise that's the path, messy and slippery as it is.

birksherty 5y ago

> Fucking bullshit No it's not. The quote is true. People who are not depressed treat it as a disease. But life truly is a trauma for most people, yet we are supposed to be optimistic disregarding the truth. It takes some medicine/chemical or copium that makes it look beautiful and everything is ok. Lots of people just never think too much and do whatever they are supposed to do, so not depressed.

romwell 5y ago
Have you ever taken antidepressants? Are you speaking from experience? Because I haven't heard of antidepressants making everything look beautiful. What they do is give you some control over the "play dead" response to give you an ability to get out or at least do something about that life of trauma. The meds aren't for coping. They are for helping you do the work needed to be in a better place. There's just no fucking way that the voice that tells people that they may only ever be a burden is coming from outside reality. There is zero truth in the voice that tells you that your untimely death will not negatively affect anyone else. There's zero truth in the voice that tells you that it's your duty to the world to make that happen sooner rather than later. >People who are not depressed treat it as a disease So do people who are depressed. Illness is what it is. We're talking about different things.
- birksherty 5y ago
  I meant saying life is beautiful like non-depressed people. Yeah may be different types of depression. I'm talking about the quote. Life is not all happy thing, some people know this and want out of this; which they are forced with to live until dying horribly, most time it's horrible sad death honestly. Acknowledging true nature of life and not wanting to continue the misery is not illness.
  - romwell 5y ago
    There's a huge gap between "acknowledging true nature of life" (that it's not all roses and ponies, that there's pain and misery) and "not wanting to continue the misery".