11 ms·

Visual Studio. Always has been. And the base class library of .net.

5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
Did you actually try the alternatives? If we're talking about dotnet specifically, then Rider? It's miles ahead of VS in every way that I can think of. I don't personally know a single dotnet developer who kept using VS after trying out Rider for a few weeks.
- radicalbyte 5y ago
  It depends on what you're doing; Visual Studio with ReSharper is still very good (as long as you have a beast of a machine).
  - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
    Every time there is a new version of Visual Studio I try and use it for as long as possible before I give up and install ReSharper. So far VS 2022 looks like it might be good enough without it.
    - jmnicolas 5y ago
      I'm using Visual Studio without Resharper since 2009. What did I miss? :p I never felt I was lacking anything in stock Visual Studio and since my company won't pay for anything I never considered Resharper. Fwiw I have Linux at home and trying Rider (I have used Android Studio before) I much prefer Visual Studio.
  - tester756 5y ago
    Visual Studio with Roslynator (free, needs less resources)
- kovac 5y ago
  I did. I tried Rider and continued to use VS when I was programming on Windows. On Linux I use Rider (though I'm mostly off. Net stuff now). Reason for using VS is because I like it's UI (like the colour scheme more) and I think there are at times issues with resolving dependency issues like nuget stuff (which is what my colleague told me who is a fulltime rider user but fires up VS rarely to resolve them). I haven't tried things like parallel stack watches, debugging dlls and remote debugging. I just liked these things the way they are in VS. Though I'd rank Rider higher than VS since it runs on Linux.
- konamicode 5y ago
  VS's windowing system is better than Rider's. I often use VS with a layout which takes up two full screens (editor on one and Tests Explorer/Solution Explorer/Output Window/Find window etc on the other). I haven't yet found a way to replicate this in Rider.
  - GordonS 5y ago
    I use Rider, and often have a code editor on my main monitor, debugger at the top of my secondary monitor, and tests at the bottom of my secondary monitor - it all works great. At the top right of each window pane is a popup menu that let's you change the window mode, it's that simple.
- Const-me 5y ago
  > It's miles ahead of VS in every way that I can think of When I need to write advanced SIMD code, or consume C libraries like FreeType designed to be hostile towards FFI, I often make C++ DLLs to be consumes from C#. Unlike Rider, Visual Studio is not just .NET IDE, it's a C++ IDE as well. The two debuggers are integrated too, it's easy to debug both C# and C++ at the same time.
  - piva00 5y ago
    And Rider is not just Rider, it's based on the IntelliJ platform that can also support multiple different languages, including C++, Python, Java and so on.
  - dotancohen 5y ago
    As a Linux user, what do I need to experiment with .NET 6 to replace Python for mostly simple file processing? 90% of my use would be to open and read/write files, read from stdin and argv, regex, maybe some http requests and math no heavier than the occasional integral or limit.
    - Scarbutt 5y ago
      Downloading .NET 6, a text editor and reading docs?
      - dotancohen 5y ago
        Yes, of course! There was much mention in this thread of the docs being out of date, referring mostly to older dotnet APIs. Also, by mentioning specific use cases, I was hoping - and got - very specific and helpful recommendations.
    - thrower123 5y ago
      You're probably better just sticking with Python if that is all you are doing. DotNet and C# works fine for all of those things, but it's definitely simpler to get spun up with a Python script for the quick and dirty. DotNet really shines as things get bigger and you need to have more structure.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Miles ahead only for those that don't know how to use VS properly. It has tons of features missing for Windows development, debugging across .NET languages, C++, COM and WinRT. Debugging of GPU code, parallel code, integration with mocking frameworks like Fakes, architecture modeling even for files without source available (code maps).
  - R0b0t1 5y ago
    Those latter things (COM, WinRT) are gated behind the enterprise license, IIRC. Most people will not have cause to want them. I know I don't.
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      Any serious Windows developer will.
      - R0b0t1 5y ago
        They're a sign of dated tech. Nothing modern necessarily needs them. I know how to use them and I can respect the design, but pay gating them for so long has made them irrelevant.
        pjmlp 5y ago
        Not only those things aren't gated, they are the modern APIs on Windows since Longhorn, they are only irrelevant if you are stuck on Windows XP.
        R0b0t1 5y ago
        The developer tooling was pay gated until VS2019 or something. You needed this tooling to make use of the APIs in a reasonable way, or alternative tooling. Most people just responded by not using those APIs or recreating them.
      - GordonS 5y ago
SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
Some would argue VSCode is there as well. I know a lot of my coworkers swear by it.
- aliswe 5y ago
  But its not an IDE /s
- throw1234651234 5y ago
  I personally don't like it at all. I use it to write Azure Cloud Functions, but I use WebStorm for Angular/React dev, even though I am used to Visual Studio for .NET.
dmitriid 5y ago
Tried Visual Studio 22 Preview. It couldn't run a debugger because "property program isn't defined". Apparently you need to specify some launch.json file god knows where, and god knows why. VSCode kinda works (but also creates a launch.json file somewhere). Rider just works. If it creates something somewhere, I couldn't care less (as I couldn't care less for any other IntelliJ product which tend to just work). Also. Obligatory rant by Casey Muratori on Visual Studio: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC-0tCy4P1U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC-0tCy4P1U
- Dennip 5y ago
  Why not the stable version (2019) instead of a literal preview...
  - dmitriid 5y ago
    I'm on a Mac, so decided to give it a try. It's an interface overhaul, why wouldn't it be able to launch something though? I tried to install a previous version. It started installing, and then ... just failed. With no description of what failed, and how to deal with it. So eventually I gave up. WHat's launch.json and where is it described? And why can't it figure stuff automatically like Rider? And why does VSCode create a separate launch.json and why can't the two share the same one? So many questions, so few answers.
    - mook 5y ago
      Visual Studio for Mac is a completely unrelated product that happens to share a name; when people say Visual Studio without any qualifiers they _probably_ don't mean the Mac version. Microsoft overall has a terrible naming sense, with occasional good accidents.
    - plorkyeran 5y ago
      Visual Studio is Windows only. VS for Mac is an unrelated program which used to be named Xamarin Studio.
  - rharb 5y ago
barrenko 5y ago
Ugly bloated eye-sore. Pardon my language. Just rip off JetBrains already.
- onemoresoop 5y ago
  I use Visual Studio on a daily basis and I abhor it. It is hard to navigate without a mouse, things are shoved in small boxes and requires a lot of clicking around. But my coworkers love it so it must be a subjective thing, right? The amount of bugs make me hesitant to ever upgrade when I get a stable version. VS 2018 is riddled with UI bugs. One of them that is annoying me is the basic functionality for undo, text no longer focuses on the latest undo chunk and you don't know how far you got.

Did you actually try the alternatives? If we're talking about dotnet specifically, then Rider? It's miles ahead of VS in every way that I can think of. I don't personally know a single dotnet developer who kept using VS after trying out Rider for a few weeks.

radicalbyte 5y ago
It depends on what you're doing; Visual Studio with ReSharper is still very good (as long as you have a beast of a machine).
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  Every time there is a new version of Visual Studio I try and use it for as long as possible before I give up and install ReSharper. So far VS 2022 looks like it might be good enough without it.
  - jmnicolas 5y ago
    I'm using Visual Studio without Resharper since 2009. What did I miss? :p I never felt I was lacking anything in stock Visual Studio and since my company won't pay for anything I never considered Resharper. Fwiw I have Linux at home and trying Rider (I have used Android Studio before) I much prefer Visual Studio.
- tester756 5y ago
  Visual Studio with Roslynator (free, needs less resources)
kovac 5y ago
I did. I tried Rider and continued to use VS when I was programming on Windows. On Linux I use Rider (though I'm mostly off. Net stuff now). Reason for using VS is because I like it's UI (like the colour scheme more) and I think there are at times issues with resolving dependency issues like nuget stuff (which is what my colleague told me who is a fulltime rider user but fires up VS rarely to resolve them). I haven't tried things like parallel stack watches, debugging dlls and remote debugging. I just liked these things the way they are in VS. Though I'd rank Rider higher than VS since it runs on Linux.
konamicode 5y ago
VS's windowing system is better than Rider's. I often use VS with a layout which takes up two full screens (editor on one and Tests Explorer/Solution Explorer/Output Window/Find window etc on the other). I haven't yet found a way to replicate this in Rider.
- GordonS 5y ago
  I use Rider, and often have a code editor on my main monitor, debugger at the top of my secondary monitor, and tests at the bottom of my secondary monitor - it all works great. At the top right of each window pane is a popup menu that let's you change the window mode, it's that simple.
Const-me 5y ago
> It's miles ahead of VS in every way that I can think of When I need to write advanced SIMD code, or consume C libraries like FreeType designed to be hostile towards FFI, I often make C++ DLLs to be consumes from C#. Unlike Rider, Visual Studio is not just .NET IDE, it's a C++ IDE as well. The two debuggers are integrated too, it's easy to debug both C# and C++ at the same time.
- piva00 5y ago
  And Rider is not just Rider, it's based on the IntelliJ platform that can also support multiple different languages, including C++, Python, Java and so on.
- dotancohen 5y ago
  As a Linux user, what do I need to experiment with .NET 6 to replace Python for mostly simple file processing? 90% of my use would be to open and read/write files, read from stdin and argv, regex, maybe some http requests and math no heavier than the occasional integral or limit.
  - Scarbutt 5y ago
    Downloading .NET 6, a text editor and reading docs?
    - dotancohen 5y ago
      Yes, of course! There was much mention in this thread of the docs being out of date, referring mostly to older dotnet APIs. Also, by mentioning specific use cases, I was hoping - and got - very specific and helpful recommendations.
  - thrower123 5y ago
    You're probably better just sticking with Python if that is all you are doing. DotNet and C# works fine for all of those things, but it's definitely simpler to get spun up with a Python script for the quick and dirty. DotNet really shines as things get bigger and you need to have more structure.
pjmlp 5y ago
Miles ahead only for those that don't know how to use VS properly. It has tons of features missing for Windows development, debugging across .NET languages, C++, COM and WinRT. Debugging of GPU code, parallel code, integration with mocking frameworks like Fakes, architecture modeling even for files without source available (code maps).
- R0b0t1 5y ago
  Those latter things (COM, WinRT) are gated behind the enterprise license, IIRC. Most people will not have cause to want them. I know I don't.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Any serious Windows developer will.
    - R0b0t1 5y ago
      They're a sign of dated tech. Nothing modern necessarily needs them. I know how to use them and I can respect the design, but pay gating them for so long has made them irrelevant.
      - pjmlp 5y ago
        Not only those things aren't gated, they are the modern APIs on Windows since Longhorn, they are only irrelevant if you are stuck on Windows XP.
        R0b0t1 5y ago
        The developer tooling was pay gated until VS2019 or something. You needed this tooling to make use of the APIs in a reasonable way, or alternative tooling. Most people just responded by not using those APIs or recreating them.
    - GordonS 5y ago

SketchySeaBeast 5y ago

Some would argue VSCode is there as well. I know a lot of my coworkers swear by it.

aliswe 5y ago
But its not an IDE /s
throw1234651234 5y ago
I personally don't like it at all. I use it to write Azure Cloud Functions, but I use WebStorm for Angular/React dev, even though I am used to Visual Studio for .NET.

dmitriid 5y ago

Tried Visual Studio 22 Preview. It couldn't run a debugger because "property program isn't defined". Apparently you need to specify some launch.json file god knows where, and god knows why. VSCode kinda works (but also creates a launch.json file somewhere). Rider just works. If it creates something somewhere, I couldn't care less (as I couldn't care less for any other IntelliJ product which tend to just work). Also. Obligatory rant by Casey Muratori on Visual Studio: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC-0tCy4P1U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC-0tCy4P1U

Dennip 5y ago
Why not the stable version (2019) instead of a literal preview...
- dmitriid 5y ago
  I'm on a Mac, so decided to give it a try. It's an interface overhaul, why wouldn't it be able to launch something though? I tried to install a previous version. It started installing, and then ... just failed. With no description of what failed, and how to deal with it. So eventually I gave up. WHat's launch.json and where is it described? And why can't it figure stuff automatically like Rider? And why does VSCode create a separate launch.json and why can't the two share the same one? So many questions, so few answers.
  - mook 5y ago
    Visual Studio for Mac is a completely unrelated product that happens to share a name; when people say Visual Studio without any qualifiers they _probably_ don't mean the Mac version. Microsoft overall has a terrible naming sense, with occasional good accidents.
  - plorkyeran 5y ago
    Visual Studio is Windows only. VS for Mac is an unrelated program which used to be named Xamarin Studio.
- rharb 5y ago

barrenko 5y ago

Ugly bloated eye-sore. Pardon my language. Just rip off JetBrains already.

onemoresoop 5y ago
I use Visual Studio on a daily basis and I abhor it. It is hard to navigate without a mouse, things are shoved in small boxes and requires a lot of clicking around. But my coworkers love it so it must be a subjective thing, right? The amount of bugs make me hesitant to ever upgrade when I get a stable version. VS 2018 is riddled with UI bugs. One of them that is annoying me is the basic functionality for undo, text no longer focuses on the latest undo chunk and you don't know how far you got.