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Yeah, let’s kick old ladies out of their houses so we can get a piece. If they wanted to stay in their neighborhood they should have made more money before ret

Yeah, let’s kick old ladies out of their houses so we can get a piece. If they wanted to stay in their neighborhood they should have made more money before retiring. Sarcasm aside, I’d like to see an example of increasing taxes on a good or service somehow making it cheaper.

austincheney 5y ago
Here is an example specific to personal real estate: https://www.virtualcpaforyou.com/comparestatetaxrates https://www.virtualcpaforyou.com/comparestatetaxrates
- nostromo 5y ago
  That’s not evidence. You’d need to show a case where an increase in taxes caused a good’s total cost to become cheaper.
  - austincheney 5y ago
    I could argue that its causing 70000 people per year to leave California for Texas to pay those increased property taxes. Well, its only an increase in percentage of estimated asset principle, but in actual dollars its still substantially less. 2% of 250,000 is 5000 which is less than 1% of 750000.
Aunche 5y ago
I care less about the old person being pressured to sell their multimillion dollar house than a poor person stuck in an area with a poor job market because they can't afford to move to a better one. Of course, since the latter is the status quo, people don't think about it as much. Increasing the property tax would allow California to cut their sales tax, which would benefit lower income people.
- rcpt 5y ago
  It's close. Last I looked California pulls in $50B per year in sales tax but Prop 13 is $30B on residential and $10B on commercial. I think to actually eliminate sales tax you'd need to end reassessment immunity and the 1% limit.
neilparikh 5y ago
> Yeah, let’s kick old ladies out of their houses so we can get a piece. If the problem is "kicking old ladies out", why not just allow seniors to defer their property tax, instead of what we have now, where even corporations pay the same fixed tax? Seems a little absurd to give the entire state a tax break for a problem that only effects 10% (at most). The "old ladies" argument was just a cover for the real reason, and you've been duped. > I’d like to see an example of increasing taxes on a good or service somehow making it cheaper. It's fairly well known that a land value tax actually has negative deadweight loss, because it incentivizes more efficient land use. It definitely can't make housing more expensive, since the supply-demand curve remains the same (the supply of land is fixed). Also: http://www.savingcommunities.org/issues/taxes/property/affordabilitycharts.html http://www.savingcommunities.org/issues/taxes/property/affor...
- nostromo 5y ago
  > The "old ladies" argument was just a cover for the real reason, and you've been duped. The comment I replied to was literally about making old people pay more for the houses they already paid for.
  - neilparikh 5y ago
    Asking people to pay property tax doesn’t imply “kicking out old ladies” though. Many people who could afford the new property tax (and thus aren’t being kicked out) might choose to downsize anyway to save money. It’s the same logic as a carbon tax.
mdorazio 5y ago
Property is not a good or service - it is a finite resource with its own economics. You're making a false comparison and then asking for proof that cannot exist. Not a good look.

austincheney 5y ago

Here is an example specific to personal real estate: https://www.virtualcpaforyou.com/comparestatetaxrates https://www.virtualcpaforyou.com/comparestatetaxrates

nostromo 5y ago
That’s not evidence. You’d need to show a case where an increase in taxes caused a good’s total cost to become cheaper.
- austincheney 5y ago
  I could argue that its causing 70000 people per year to leave California for Texas to pay those increased property taxes. Well, its only an increase in percentage of estimated asset principle, but in actual dollars its still substantially less. 2% of 250,000 is 5000 which is less than 1% of 750000.

Aunche 5y ago

I care less about the old person being pressured to sell their multimillion dollar house than a poor person stuck in an area with a poor job market because they can't afford to move to a better one. Of course, since the latter is the status quo, people don't think about it as much. Increasing the property tax would allow California to cut their sales tax, which would benefit lower income people.

rcpt 5y ago
It's close. Last I looked California pulls in $50B per year in sales tax but Prop 13 is $30B on residential and $10B on commercial. I think to actually eliminate sales tax you'd need to end reassessment immunity and the 1% limit.

neilparikh 5y ago

> Yeah, let’s kick old ladies out of their houses so we can get a piece. If the problem is "kicking old ladies out", why not just allow seniors to defer their property tax, instead of what we have now, where even corporations pay the same fixed tax? Seems a little absurd to give the entire state a tax break for a problem that only effects 10% (at most). The "old ladies" argument was just a cover for the real reason, and you've been duped. > I’d like to see an example of increasing taxes on a good or service somehow making it cheaper. It's fairly well known that a land value tax actually has negative deadweight loss, because it incentivizes more efficient land use. It definitely can't make housing more expensive, since the supply-demand curve remains the same (the supply of land is fixed). Also: http://www.savingcommunities.org/issues/taxes/property/affordabilitycharts.html http://www.savingcommunities.org/issues/taxes/property/affor...

nostromo 5y ago
> The "old ladies" argument was just a cover for the real reason, and you've been duped. The comment I replied to was literally about making old people pay more for the houses they already paid for.
- neilparikh 5y ago
  Asking people to pay property tax doesn’t imply “kicking out old ladies” though. Many people who could afford the new property tax (and thus aren’t being kicked out) might choose to downsize anyway to save money. It’s the same logic as a carbon tax.

mdorazio 5y ago

Property is not a good or service - it is a finite resource with its own economics. You're making a false comparison and then asking for proof that cannot exist. Not a good look.