7 ms·

Are Ivy league universities worth it for undergrad? I get his point that high pressure childhood and aggressive parenting isn't the best way to educate children

by zz865 5y ago

Are Ivy league universities worth it for undergrad? I get his point that high pressure childhood and aggressive parenting isn't the best way to educate children - but then he sent his kids to Harvard where most of the people there are just like that, care more about prestige rather than learning.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
If you can get in and can easily afford whatever cost you have to pay, they'll unlikely do any harm, and there's some reason to believe they'll help. High quality data on this is hard to come by, but what data I am aware of is inconclusive, and that if there is an effect of going to an elite university, it's not that large at the median. https://www.nber.org/papers/w7322 https://www.nber.org/papers/w7322
- zz865 5y ago
  Thanks, that's an interesting paper: > We find that students who attended more selective colleges do not earn more than other students who were accepted and rejected by comparable schools but attended less selective colleges. However, the average tuition charged by the school is significantly related to the students’ subsequent earnings. Indeed, we find a substantial internal rate of return from attending a more costly college. Lastly, the payoff to attending an elite college appears to be greater for students from more disadvantaged family backgrounds.
  - zz865 5y ago
    Wow its a 1999 paper on 1976 grads, not sure how well the lessons continue.
    - asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
      As I mentioned in my original comment, solid information on this question is hard to come by. I think someone could reasonably believe a number of different things about the effects of elite colleges. But what one cannot reasonably do is be confident in those beliefs, especially a belief that the elite colleges have a strong, positive, causal effect at the median.
vmception 5y ago
If you are going to school to get a job then no, not worth it, and all the “average graduate job placement and salary” statistics are not nuanced enough or telling you anything important. If you are going to school to network with the elite, adopt their culture, and maybe parlay that into financial opportunity by mere proximity, Harvard is still one of the best bets for the last 500 (edit: ROUNDUP (385, -2)) years. They will weather this recent half-century where people associate higher education with working for other people out of necessity (and therefore consider university caste system to be the primary problem as opposed to the entire private sector).
- chana_masala 5y ago
  500 years? I had to look it up. Harvard is 385 years old
  - vmception 5y ago
    huh, yeah you're right, I rounded up but also added 100 years. primary point still stands
  - DocTomoe 5y ago
    To be fair, the concept of "more junior clubhouses for the upper echelon of society than colleges/universities" has existed long before before Havard (see Oxbridge).
spoonjim 5y ago
You find a lot of mechanical strivers at the country’s top universities but also some of the greatest thinkers in that age bracket. Almost every really exceptional mind is going to pick Harvard over say Davidson if given the choice.
- zz865 5y ago
  Sure everyone is going to pick Harvard over Davidson but would you pick Cornell over Georgia Tech?
  - aynyc 5y ago
    Dang, you did Cornell dirty! I think if you are good enough to get into Cornell, you are good enough to get in Georgia Tech. The rest is cost. If you are an out-of-stater, they probably end up costing about the same. My understanding is Cornell gives out a lot of financial aids.
    - zz865 5y ago
      Lol not really, I'd still choose it. The problem is I'm just another immigrant and I dont understand the fascination with rankings here, esp when I'm surrounded by tiger parents who work their kids every day to get them into Harvard. Maybe its worth it? Its difficult to tell.
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        Whether or not it is worth it depends on your priorities. Based on the pedigree of many of the leading political figures and business leaders, it does seem to have a measurable impact to have passed through the leading institutions. Who you know is of course more important than what you know. But depending high high you are aiming, it may or may not be worth the tradeoffs for you.
      - spoonjim 5y ago
        Honestly the majority of it is Harvard selecting who they know will be rich, famous, or both. I know a girl who got into Harvard but her parents couldn't afford to send her (this was before they ramped up their financial aid), she went to state school instead, won a Marshall Scholarship, and was a tenured professor at Harvard by her early 30s.

by zz865 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago

If you can get in and can easily afford whatever cost you have to pay, they'll unlikely do any harm, and there's some reason to believe they'll help. High quality data on this is hard to come by, but what data I am aware of is inconclusive, and that if there is an effect of going to an elite university, it's not that large at the median. https://www.nber.org/papers/w7322 https://www.nber.org/papers/w7322

zz865 5y ago
Thanks, that's an interesting paper: > We find that students who attended more selective colleges do not earn more than other students who were accepted and rejected by comparable schools but attended less selective colleges. However, the average tuition charged by the school is significantly related to the students’ subsequent earnings. Indeed, we find a substantial internal rate of return from attending a more costly college. Lastly, the payoff to attending an elite college appears to be greater for students from more disadvantaged family backgrounds.
- zz865 5y ago
  Wow its a 1999 paper on 1976 grads, not sure how well the lessons continue.
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
    As I mentioned in my original comment, solid information on this question is hard to come by. I think someone could reasonably believe a number of different things about the effects of elite colleges. But what one cannot reasonably do is be confident in those beliefs, especially a belief that the elite colleges have a strong, positive, causal effect at the median.

vmception 5y ago

If you are going to school to get a job then no, not worth it, and all the “average graduate job placement and salary” statistics are not nuanced enough or telling you anything important. If you are going to school to network with the elite, adopt their culture, and maybe parlay that into financial opportunity by mere proximity, Harvard is still one of the best bets for the last 500 (edit: ROUNDUP (385, -2)) years. They will weather this recent half-century where people associate higher education with working for other people out of necessity (and therefore consider university caste system to be the primary problem as opposed to the entire private sector).

chana_masala 5y ago
500 years? I had to look it up. Harvard is 385 years old
- vmception 5y ago
  huh, yeah you're right, I rounded up but also added 100 years. primary point still stands
- DocTomoe 5y ago
  To be fair, the concept of "more junior clubhouses for the upper echelon of society than colleges/universities" has existed long before before Havard (see Oxbridge).

spoonjim 5y ago

You find a lot of mechanical strivers at the country’s top universities but also some of the greatest thinkers in that age bracket. Almost every really exceptional mind is going to pick Harvard over say Davidson if given the choice.

zz865 5y ago
Sure everyone is going to pick Harvard over Davidson but would you pick Cornell over Georgia Tech?
- aynyc 5y ago
  Dang, you did Cornell dirty! I think if you are good enough to get into Cornell, you are good enough to get in Georgia Tech. The rest is cost. If you are an out-of-stater, they probably end up costing about the same. My understanding is Cornell gives out a lot of financial aids.
  - zz865 5y ago
    Lol not really, I'd still choose it. The problem is I'm just another immigrant and I dont understand the fascination with rankings here, esp when I'm surrounded by tiger parents who work their kids every day to get them into Harvard. Maybe its worth it? Its difficult to tell.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      Whether or not it is worth it depends on your priorities. Based on the pedigree of many of the leading political figures and business leaders, it does seem to have a measurable impact to have passed through the leading institutions. Who you know is of course more important than what you know. But depending high high you are aiming, it may or may not be worth the tradeoffs for you.
    - spoonjim 5y ago
      Honestly the majority of it is Harvard selecting who they know will be rich, famous, or both. I know a girl who got into Harvard but her parents couldn't afford to send her (this was before they ramped up their financial aid), she went to state school instead, won a Marshall Scholarship, and was a tenured professor at Harvard by her early 30s.