10 ms·

What's so bad about them?

by coin 5y ago

lmm 5y ago
Easy to mispolarise, not earthed, not safe when partially inserted.
- Eelongate 5y ago
  > Easy to mispolarise I've never given polarization any thought and never had any problems, so I don't buy this being an actually a problem in practice. > not earthed NEMA-1 aren't earthed, but NEMA-1 sockets have been forbidden since the 60s, so that fails the "unchanged" part of coldtea's assertion. NEMA-1 plugs may still be used on Class II double insulated appliances, which is fine. And NEMA-5 does have a ground. > not safe when partially inserted. I've never worried about it, never been hurt by it, and never heard of anybody being hurt by it. This is a "problem" that I often hear described by Europeans online but it's totally alien to me. Please remember that we only put 120V through these things, which is substantially less nippy than 240V.
  - NobodyNada 5y ago
    > I've never worried about it, never been hurt by it, and never heard of anybody being hurt by it. Just as my anecdotal experience: I've shocked myself at least twice because my finger slipped over the contacts while I was trying to plug/unplug something in the dark. I have of course learned my lesson and am much more careful when plugging stuff in, but it's a relatively easy mistake to make if one is tired or not paying attention. Yes, I got shocked because I was stupid and careless. But a connector that everybody uses every single day should be idiot-proof -- it should not be possible to kill myself because I plugged something in carelessly. The US has the "excuse" of being the first domestic power distribution system -- other countries have better standards because they were able to learn from the design flaws in our plugs. And our split-phase 120V system is (as far as I know) a great idea that's way safer than direct 240V. But there really are a lot of things that the NEMA plugs leave to be desired. I second the recommendation by a sibling commenter to check out Technology Connection's videos on the subject -- I found them to be entertaining, nuanced, and highly informative.
    - ddingus 5y ago
      You have thin, long fingers? Wife has same and got a zap. I never have and my own fingers are a bit pudgy. This happening never even occurred to me.
    - kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
      The US used to use Edison bases for appliance sockets. The current design is an improved safety upgrade from that.
    - rsynnott 5y ago
      > The US has the "excuse" of being the first domestic power distribution system -- other countries have better standards because they were able to learn from the design flaws in our plugs. Are the US plugs actually original? The UK ones are on their third generation (originally various proprietary or light-socket-based things, then the three prong round ones found in very old buildings and specialised industrial applications, then the three prong rectangular ones from the 60s). > And our split-phase 120V system is (as far as I know) a great idea that's way safer than direct 240V. Eh. They are both safer or less safe in different ways. The US system requires about double the current for given power, so is less forgiving of marginal wiring.
    - Eelongate 5y ago
      Sometimes when it's dark and I don't know exactly where the socket is, I'll hold the plug by the prongs itself so I can feel both the prongs and the socket at the same time.
  - Johnny555 5y ago
    I've never given polarization any thought and never had any problems, so I don't buy this being an actually a problem in practice. That's probably because a lot of equipment is double-insulated now so polarization doesn't matter, and manufacturers are better at getting the polarization right. It's usually when someone (incorrectly) replaces a cord themselves that you run into issues, which doesn't seem to happen much nowadays, the lamp with the bad cord goes in the trash. Though I've certainly run into home outlets that are wired backwards. Probably the most likely place you'd run into problems with incorrect polarization is when changing a light bulb. If the polarization is wrong, the outer threaded part of the socket will be live, and you've got a good chance of contacting it while changing a light bulb. (which itself is becoming a rarely with long lasting LED bulbs, or LED lamps without changeable bulbs). Though this is probalby more the fault of the Edison lightbulb socket than of the polarized plug.
  - bjoli 5y ago
    I recently found my 5 year old trying to insert scissors into the power outlet. Ours have som kind of poke protection (sweden. Not as good as the british outlet where a ground , proper or plastic, always has to be present) which he would have probably overcome given enough time. I would be terrified of the american plug. I played with one when I was over last time and there was over 5mm of exposed live connectors. That's bonkers.
  - pawelk 5y ago
    > I've never given polarization any thought and never had any problems, so I don't buy this being an actually a problem in practice. In my experience polarization has only became relevant once: when mounting a dedicated socket for a gas furnace. For some reason these don't like the live and neutral being reversed and go into an error mode when that happens. Other than that, most wall sockets in my house are dual, which means polarization in the top socket is reverse of that at the bottom and it has never caused any issues.
glitchc 5y ago
Here’s a link explaining why the UK Type G plug is so much better: https://www.quora.com/Why-are-the-electrical-plugs-and-sockets-in-the-US-so-inferior-to-their-counterparts-in-the-UK https://www.quora.com/Why-are-the-electrical-plugs-and-socke... Photo of a type G plug (this is an adapter): https://www.rcjaz.ca/jazrider-type-british-3pin-electrical-adapter-plug-p-90023064.html https://www.rcjaz.ca/jazrider-type-british-3pin-electrical-a...
- akvadrako 5y ago
  UK plugs are pretty bad for one reason: they are huge. At least they are compatible with Europlugs if you use a fork to open the ground flap.
- jorvi 5y ago
  That link completely glosses over the fact that UK electrical networks are one big ring circuit instead of a radial circuit. This is because during WW2 they needed the metal savings, and this is also why every UK plug is fused and quite bulky. IMO the EU way is the best. Radial circuit, fused in groups, and the plug is either the Schuko plug (very safe since the earth/ground is always engaged first) or Europlug (relatively safe because it is only allowed for low class power appliances). Both type of plugs can be angled, although it is quite rare for an Europlug to be.
  - fy20 5y ago
    Ignoring the circuit design and fuse location (which I agree with you on), the child proofing of British sockets is much better than Schuko sockets (CEE 7/3), as they require the ground pin to be engaged before protective cover of the live/neutral pins is opened - it's impossible to open just by pushing something in the live socket. How does this work with child proof Schuko sockets (I've never seen them)? Also as someone who lived in both the UK and now a Schuko country, I do sometimes miss having a switch on the socket :-) We have a floor lamp without a switch, so we have to physically unplug it to turn it off.
    - atoav 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
acidbaseextract 5y ago
For those who are into this kind of thing, here's a 25 minute mini-documentary of the US electrical system's history and problems. It's more focused on wiring, but has a lot to say on plugs: https://youtu.be/K_q-xnYRugQ https://youtu.be/K_q-xnYRugQ
- wging 5y ago
  There is a more recent video from the same person (Technology Connections) that concentrates on plugs - specifically, why US plugs have holes in them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udNXMAflbU8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udNXMAflbU8

What's so bad about them?

by coin 5y ago

What's so bad about them?

lmm 5y ago

Easy to mispolarise, not earthed, not safe when partially inserted.

Eelongate 5y ago
> Easy to mispolarise I've never given polarization any thought and never had any problems, so I don't buy this being an actually a problem in practice. > not earthed NEMA-1 aren't earthed, but NEMA-1 sockets have been forbidden since the 60s, so that fails the "unchanged" part of coldtea's assertion. NEMA-1 plugs may still be used on Class II double insulated appliances, which is fine. And NEMA-5 does have a ground. > not safe when partially inserted. I've never worried about it, never been hurt by it, and never heard of anybody being hurt by it. This is a "problem" that I often hear described by Europeans online but it's totally alien to me. Please remember that we only put 120V through these things, which is substantially less nippy than 240V.
- NobodyNada 5y ago
  > I've never worried about it, never been hurt by it, and never heard of anybody being hurt by it. Just as my anecdotal experience: I've shocked myself at least twice because my finger slipped over the contacts while I was trying to plug/unplug something in the dark. I have of course learned my lesson and am much more careful when plugging stuff in, but it's a relatively easy mistake to make if one is tired or not paying attention. Yes, I got shocked because I was stupid and careless. But a connector that everybody uses every single day should be idiot-proof -- it should not be possible to kill myself because I plugged something in carelessly. The US has the "excuse" of being the first domestic power distribution system -- other countries have better standards because they were able to learn from the design flaws in our plugs. And our split-phase 120V system is (as far as I know) a great idea that's way safer than direct 240V. But there really are a lot of things that the NEMA plugs leave to be desired. I second the recommendation by a sibling commenter to check out Technology Connection's videos on the subject -- I found them to be entertaining, nuanced, and highly informative.
  - ddingus 5y ago
    You have thin, long fingers? Wife has same and got a zap. I never have and my own fingers are a bit pudgy. This happening never even occurred to me.
  - kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
    The US used to use Edison bases for appliance sockets. The current design is an improved safety upgrade from that.
  - rsynnott 5y ago
    > The US has the "excuse" of being the first domestic power distribution system -- other countries have better standards because they were able to learn from the design flaws in our plugs. Are the US plugs actually original? The UK ones are on their third generation (originally various proprietary or light-socket-based things, then the three prong round ones found in very old buildings and specialised industrial applications, then the three prong rectangular ones from the 60s). > And our split-phase 120V system is (as far as I know) a great idea that's way safer than direct 240V. Eh. They are both safer or less safe in different ways. The US system requires about double the current for given power, so is less forgiving of marginal wiring.
  - Eelongate 5y ago
    Sometimes when it's dark and I don't know exactly where the socket is, I'll hold the plug by the prongs itself so I can feel both the prongs and the socket at the same time.
- Johnny555 5y ago
  I've never given polarization any thought and never had any problems, so I don't buy this being an actually a problem in practice. That's probably because a lot of equipment is double-insulated now so polarization doesn't matter, and manufacturers are better at getting the polarization right. It's usually when someone (incorrectly) replaces a cord themselves that you run into issues, which doesn't seem to happen much nowadays, the lamp with the bad cord goes in the trash. Though I've certainly run into home outlets that are wired backwards. Probably the most likely place you'd run into problems with incorrect polarization is when changing a light bulb. If the polarization is wrong, the outer threaded part of the socket will be live, and you've got a good chance of contacting it while changing a light bulb. (which itself is becoming a rarely with long lasting LED bulbs, or LED lamps without changeable bulbs). Though this is probalby more the fault of the Edison lightbulb socket than of the polarized plug.
- bjoli 5y ago
  I recently found my 5 year old trying to insert scissors into the power outlet. Ours have som kind of poke protection (sweden. Not as good as the british outlet where a ground , proper or plastic, always has to be present) which he would have probably overcome given enough time. I would be terrified of the american plug. I played with one when I was over last time and there was over 5mm of exposed live connectors. That's bonkers.
- pawelk 5y ago
  > I've never given polarization any thought and never had any problems, so I don't buy this being an actually a problem in practice. In my experience polarization has only became relevant once: when mounting a dedicated socket for a gas furnace. For some reason these don't like the live and neutral being reversed and go into an error mode when that happens. Other than that, most wall sockets in my house are dual, which means polarization in the top socket is reverse of that at the bottom and it has never caused any issues.

glitchc 5y ago

Here’s a link explaining why the UK Type G plug is so much better: https://www.quora.com/Why-are-the-electrical-plugs-and-sockets-in-the-US-so-inferior-to-their-counterparts-in-the-UK https://www.quora.com/Why-are-the-electrical-plugs-and-socke... Photo of a type G plug (this is an adapter): https://www.rcjaz.ca/jazrider-type-british-3pin-electrical-adapter-plug-p-90023064.html https://www.rcjaz.ca/jazrider-type-british-3pin-electrical-a...

akvadrako 5y ago
UK plugs are pretty bad for one reason: they are huge. At least they are compatible with Europlugs if you use a fork to open the ground flap.
jorvi 5y ago
That link completely glosses over the fact that UK electrical networks are one big ring circuit instead of a radial circuit. This is because during WW2 they needed the metal savings, and this is also why every UK plug is fused and quite bulky. IMO the EU way is the best. Radial circuit, fused in groups, and the plug is either the Schuko plug (very safe since the earth/ground is always engaged first) or Europlug (relatively safe because it is only allowed for low class power appliances). Both type of plugs can be angled, although it is quite rare for an Europlug to be.
- fy20 5y ago
  Ignoring the circuit design and fuse location (which I agree with you on), the child proofing of British sockets is much better than Schuko sockets (CEE 7/3), as they require the ground pin to be engaged before protective cover of the live/neutral pins is opened - it's impossible to open just by pushing something in the live socket. How does this work with child proof Schuko sockets (I've never seen them)? Also as someone who lived in both the UK and now a Schuko country, I do sometimes miss having a switch on the socket :-) We have a floor lamp without a switch, so we have to physically unplug it to turn it off.
  - atoav 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

acidbaseextract 5y ago

For those who are into this kind of thing, here's a 25 minute mini-documentary of the US electrical system's history and problems. It's more focused on wiring, but has a lot to say on plugs: https://youtu.be/K_q-xnYRugQ https://youtu.be/K_q-xnYRugQ

wging 5y ago
There is a more recent video from the same person (Technology Connections) that concentrates on plugs - specifically, why US plugs have holes in them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udNXMAflbU8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udNXMAflbU8