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For most people it's both. There's a reason home ownership is often a component of "the American Dream". Owning land and a house is a huge step in status and

For most people it's both. There's a reason home ownership is often a component of "the American Dream". Owning land and a house is a huge step in status and financial security. Owning a house is also a huge luxury. It's strange to deny either of these realities. Some people don't want luxuries, okay, but it should be clear that nearly everyone does.

bumby 5y ago
Recognizing it is one thing, but thinking it’s a good “investment” is another. Often funding/chasing status is a fools errand IMO. Part of the problem is that homes being the largest asset that a person owns because they’re chasing the status of that American Dream. Can you think of any other illiquid asset that people would suggest piling a majority of your net worth into?
- willis936 5y ago
  There is no other asset I can own that alleviates the financial burden of burning nearly half of my take-home pay in perpetuity to fund some rich landlord's beach vacations.
  - xur17 5y ago
    But it doesn't remove that financial burden entirely (or even close to entirely). You're still paying: * opportunity cost * property taxes * interest
    - jurassic 5y ago
      You're paying many of these things in a rental as well. But at the end of 30 years the landlord keeps the asset.
      - refurb 5y ago
        I was living in a place in SF that would have cost me 3x to purchase versus my rent. I could take the leftover and invest in other assets. I'm actually ahead of where I would be had I owned since condos have dropped in SF with Covid.
      - bumby 5y ago
        If someone is well-off enough to be in a position to choose, renting is essentially paying a premium for freedom of movement. Used smartly, this can be an avenue to dramatically increase earnings over time because in today’s economy switching jobs is one of the faster ways to increase wages. While previous generations may not have had that problem, I think it changes the own/rent calculus for younger people.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - bumby 5y ago
    If you’re spending that large of a percentage on housing you’re already running against most prudent financial advice and probably shouldn’t be thinking of housing as an investment asset
    - willis936 5y ago
      I live in the real world, not the fantasy one they haves think exist. I understand where you're coming from though. You wouldn't want social mobility to become the norm.
      - bumby 5y ago
        You may want to revisit the HN guidelines. With that aside, I absolutely do want to foster social mobility. I actually think it’s still possible but probably not in the dream-world way many people think where it comes completely on their own terms. In most cases, it involves avoiding a few basic things like substance abuse, onerous debt, living outside ones means, and having kids before one is financially stable. But that often flies in the face of what people emotionally want or are told to pursue, so sometimes people want to go into massive debt for depreciating assets or to go to college because that’s what “everyone” does, or to live in an expensive, trendy area because it’s cool or they think that’s where they need to be to chase status. Barring those types of mistakes, social mobility (towards the upper middle class level at least) is generally available. I’m willing to bet many people on HN are already close to that status even if it doesn’t feel like it because they’re comparing themselves to economic outliers rather than the average citizen.
paulcole 5y ago
> Owning a house is also a huge luxury. It's strange to deny either of these realities. I'll happily deny this reality. Owning a home is a huge luxury to some, but it is also a huge burden to some.

bumby 5y ago

Recognizing it is one thing, but thinking it’s a good “investment” is another. Often funding/chasing status is a fools errand IMO. Part of the problem is that homes being the largest asset that a person owns because they’re chasing the status of that American Dream. Can you think of any other illiquid asset that people would suggest piling a majority of your net worth into?

willis936 5y ago
There is no other asset I can own that alleviates the financial burden of burning nearly half of my take-home pay in perpetuity to fund some rich landlord's beach vacations.
- xur17 5y ago
  But it doesn't remove that financial burden entirely (or even close to entirely). You're still paying: * opportunity cost * property taxes * interest
  - jurassic 5y ago
    You're paying many of these things in a rental as well. But at the end of 30 years the landlord keeps the asset.
    - refurb 5y ago
      I was living in a place in SF that would have cost me 3x to purchase versus my rent. I could take the leftover and invest in other assets. I'm actually ahead of where I would be had I owned since condos have dropped in SF with Covid.
    - bumby 5y ago
      If someone is well-off enough to be in a position to choose, renting is essentially paying a premium for freedom of movement. Used smartly, this can be an avenue to dramatically increase earnings over time because in today’s economy switching jobs is one of the faster ways to increase wages. While previous generations may not have had that problem, I think it changes the own/rent calculus for younger people.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- bumby 5y ago
  If you’re spending that large of a percentage on housing you’re already running against most prudent financial advice and probably shouldn’t be thinking of housing as an investment asset
  - willis936 5y ago
    I live in the real world, not the fantasy one they haves think exist. I understand where you're coming from though. You wouldn't want social mobility to become the norm.
    - bumby 5y ago
      You may want to revisit the HN guidelines. With that aside, I absolutely do want to foster social mobility. I actually think it’s still possible but probably not in the dream-world way many people think where it comes completely on their own terms. In most cases, it involves avoiding a few basic things like substance abuse, onerous debt, living outside ones means, and having kids before one is financially stable. But that often flies in the face of what people emotionally want or are told to pursue, so sometimes people want to go into massive debt for depreciating assets or to go to college because that’s what “everyone” does, or to live in an expensive, trendy area because it’s cool or they think that’s where they need to be to chase status. Barring those types of mistakes, social mobility (towards the upper middle class level at least) is generally available. I’m willing to bet many people on HN are already close to that status even if it doesn’t feel like it because they’re comparing themselves to economic outliers rather than the average citizen.

paulcole 5y ago

> Owning a house is also a huge luxury. It's strange to deny either of these realities. I'll happily deny this reality. Owning a home is a huge luxury to some, but it is also a huge burden to some.