8 ms·

I don’t think this is good advice financially, though there is more to life than money. First, if by “tech salary” you mean a software engineers salary or a pro

by jshen 5y ago

I don’t think this is good advice financially, though there is more to life than money. First, if by “tech salary” you mean a software engineers salary or a product managers, then you should be able to afford a house in a place like Seattle. It might be tight if you are early in your career, but it is very doable. The main reason this is likely to be bad financially is that your house won’t appreciate like a house in Seattle. I’ve been doing tech for a long time at this point, and have seen people make both choices and how it plays out over the long run. Those that stayed in the big city are basically financially independent at this point, and those that moved are not. The difference in net worth after 20 years is very significant.

t-writescode 5y ago
I live in Seattle. I have an engineer’s salary. I cannot presently afford a condo, let alone a house. By the time I have enough for the down payment, I will again not be able to afford a home.
- 01100011 5y ago
  You need an engineer's salary combined with another engineer's salary or very productive equity compensation. You're basically competing with folks who have both an engineer's salary(or two) combined with equity from their previous house.
  - randycupertino 5y ago
    Don't forget the Bank of Mom and Dad!
  - jshen 5y ago
    Nope. If you make ~200k a year, you can afford an $800k place, and I can easily find nice places in Seattle for that amount.
- quaesitor 5y ago
  Nice excuse. Only works if you want to make 20% down instead of 3%[0] [0] https://www.knowyouroptions.com/buy-overview/affordable-mortgage-options/3-down-payment-mortgage-for-first-time-homebuyers https://www.knowyouroptions.com/buy-overview/affordable-mort...
  - kristjansson 5y ago
    > Funding from those programs often can be combined with financial gifts from your family and friends to reduce your out-of-pocket costs to buy a home. I mean, I get the point of saying that (funding from F&F doesn’t disqualify the applicant), but man does it feel like a quasi-government agency is suggesting needy borrowers should just ask their parents for money.
  - t-writescode 5y ago
    Well, I tried to put 5% down; but, then I realized how much higher above asking things were selling for; and how people skip out on things like inspections. But I still want inspections, so I ask for them. This puts me down on the list of desireable buyers. I went into a place that was selling for around 300k. I was going to offer as much as 325. I was also willing to go 5k above what the place would appraise for. This matters because you can't get a loan for above a place is worth. The place sold for nearly 375k. If it appraised for 325, the buyer is on the hook for an *additional* 50k that they have to pay in cash at time of signing. You can't just not have lots of spare money in this market.
    - jshen 5y ago
      You aren’t making a typical engineering salary if you can’t afford a $500k place.
      - t-writescode 5y ago
        I make 150k / year. I'm an SDE 2. The problem isn't the monthly payment, the problem is the down payment. And you've said in several places how engineers make 200k+ after 5 years. Maybe in total compensation and only in FAANG; but there are a loooot of engineering companies in Washington and the Seattle area that aren't getting hundreds of thousands of dollars in stock that's increased 5-10 fold in the last 2 years.
- jshen 5y ago
  I call bullshit unless you are entry level. The average engineer at a big company with 5 years experience is probably making >$200k all in. I can easily find 2bd 2bath condos and townhomes in Seattle for ~$800k.
  - t-writescode 5y ago
    There are lots of engineers in the Seattle area that do not work for Google, Facebook, Amazon or Microsoft. I make about 150k / year. I have 10 years experience. Were I a senior, it'd be 180k. Still not much more. It's also the most I've made at any job I've ever worked. My previous company, I was one of the highest paid employees at 115k. Forgive me, but I think you need to check your privilege when you speak about regular matters for people like millenials trying to buy houses. And I can't imagine a place on the planet where 800 thousand dollars is a reasonable price for a 2 bedroom, 2 bath. In the Work-From-Home days, 2 bed, 2 bath is decidedly a 1-person household (the other room is an office), *maybe* a married couple that get along well. edit: typo
    - jshen 5y ago
      You are underpaid. You should look for other jobs to fix that. Also, at 150k you should be able to afford a place that is 500k or more. I bought my first place when I was making 115 and it cost 400k with much higher interest rates than today. Those are just facts, and it’s a fact that the average tech salary is sufficient to buy a place in Seattle. Privilege? I grew up very poor, no one in my immediate family has finished high school, let alone college. I enlisted in the army and did a tour in a war to pay for my college. I was in a similar boat to you and the others complaining when I was early in my career and I’m trying to help with some perspective and experience. You can complain about the cost of housing, complain about whatever privilege you think I have, but it won’t help you get to a better place. I’m offering advice to help get you all to a better place because I faced the same challenges and overcame them.
      - t-writescode 5y ago
        I make over 1.5x the median income in King County. Further, my company makes an effort to operate on the 50th percentile in engineering companies for our positions, so LOTS of people are "underpaid" according to you. And I can afford a 500k place. I cannot afford the down payment and the surprise assessment tax, etc.
alexose 5y ago
Oh, it's not good advice financially. In retrospect, the best thing I could have done with my money would have been to buy the most expensive house in the best neighborhood I could possibly manage. Put it all on the table. But I didn't want to play that game, and neither did my partner (We have bad memories of the 2009 recession and both hate the idea of debt). So I suppose I traded the future riches for present flexibility.
- wastedhours 5y ago
  > the best thing I could have done with my money would have been to buy the most expensive house in the best neighborhood I could possibly manage Usually the best thing to do is to buy the worst house in the best neighbourhood. That way you are in for less cash, but are anchored to the higher prices around you.
blntechie 5y ago
>The main reason this is likely to be bad financially is that your house won’t appreciate like a house in Seattle. So the only solution then is endless appreciation of house prices and salaries?
- jshen 5y ago
  That’s how our economic system works. It’s also the only possibility if population continues to grow. There are no silver bullets here.
  - blntechie 5y ago
    It’s simply astounding to me that if someone runs for an election saying they will reduce home prices, they are guaranteed to lose as land and homeowners simply don’t want that to happen. They don’t care about people who don’t have homes or simply cannot afford to even rent but only about protecting their ‘investment’. The whole setup about HOAs, bylaws, zonal regulations etc. all written around protecting the ‘investment’ instead of just seeing a home as a place to live exacerbates the problem. There actually are several silver bullets to use like - efficient use of land, better zoning regulations and including more use of land to build more homes etc. but they are all non-starters because of greedy land and home owners.

by jshen 5y ago

t-writescode 5y ago

I live in Seattle. I have an engineer’s salary. I cannot presently afford a condo, let alone a house. By the time I have enough for the down payment, I will again not be able to afford a home.

01100011 5y ago
You need an engineer's salary combined with another engineer's salary or very productive equity compensation. You're basically competing with folks who have both an engineer's salary(or two) combined with equity from their previous house.
- randycupertino 5y ago
  Don't forget the Bank of Mom and Dad!
- jshen 5y ago
  Nope. If you make ~200k a year, you can afford an $800k place, and I can easily find nice places in Seattle for that amount.
quaesitor 5y ago
Nice excuse. Only works if you want to make 20% down instead of 3%[0] [0] https://www.knowyouroptions.com/buy-overview/affordable-mortgage-options/3-down-payment-mortgage-for-first-time-homebuyers https://www.knowyouroptions.com/buy-overview/affordable-mort...
- kristjansson 5y ago
  > Funding from those programs often can be combined with financial gifts from your family and friends to reduce your out-of-pocket costs to buy a home. I mean, I get the point of saying that (funding from F&F doesn’t disqualify the applicant), but man does it feel like a quasi-government agency is suggesting needy borrowers should just ask their parents for money.
- t-writescode 5y ago
  Well, I tried to put 5% down; but, then I realized how much higher above asking things were selling for; and how people skip out on things like inspections. But I still want inspections, so I ask for them. This puts me down on the list of desireable buyers. I went into a place that was selling for around 300k. I was going to offer as much as 325. I was also willing to go 5k above what the place would appraise for. This matters because you can't get a loan for above a place is worth. The place sold for nearly 375k. If it appraised for 325, the buyer is on the hook for an *additional* 50k that they have to pay in cash at time of signing. You can't just not have lots of spare money in this market.
  - jshen 5y ago
    You aren’t making a typical engineering salary if you can’t afford a $500k place.
    - t-writescode 5y ago
      I make 150k / year. I'm an SDE 2. The problem isn't the monthly payment, the problem is the down payment. And you've said in several places how engineers make 200k+ after 5 years. Maybe in total compensation and only in FAANG; but there are a loooot of engineering companies in Washington and the Seattle area that aren't getting hundreds of thousands of dollars in stock that's increased 5-10 fold in the last 2 years.
jshen 5y ago
I call bullshit unless you are entry level. The average engineer at a big company with 5 years experience is probably making >$200k all in. I can easily find 2bd 2bath condos and townhomes in Seattle for ~$800k.
- t-writescode 5y ago
  There are lots of engineers in the Seattle area that do not work for Google, Facebook, Amazon or Microsoft. I make about 150k / year. I have 10 years experience. Were I a senior, it'd be 180k. Still not much more. It's also the most I've made at any job I've ever worked. My previous company, I was one of the highest paid employees at 115k. Forgive me, but I think you need to check your privilege when you speak about regular matters for people like millenials trying to buy houses. And I can't imagine a place on the planet where 800 thousand dollars is a reasonable price for a 2 bedroom, 2 bath. In the Work-From-Home days, 2 bed, 2 bath is decidedly a 1-person household (the other room is an office), *maybe* a married couple that get along well. edit: typo
  - jshen 5y ago
    You are underpaid. You should look for other jobs to fix that. Also, at 150k you should be able to afford a place that is 500k or more. I bought my first place when I was making 115 and it cost 400k with much higher interest rates than today. Those are just facts, and it’s a fact that the average tech salary is sufficient to buy a place in Seattle. Privilege? I grew up very poor, no one in my immediate family has finished high school, let alone college. I enlisted in the army and did a tour in a war to pay for my college. I was in a similar boat to you and the others complaining when I was early in my career and I’m trying to help with some perspective and experience. You can complain about the cost of housing, complain about whatever privilege you think I have, but it won’t help you get to a better place. I’m offering advice to help get you all to a better place because I faced the same challenges and overcame them.
    - t-writescode 5y ago
      I make over 1.5x the median income in King County. Further, my company makes an effort to operate on the 50th percentile in engineering companies for our positions, so LOTS of people are "underpaid" according to you. And I can afford a 500k place. I cannot afford the down payment and the surprise assessment tax, etc.

alexose 5y ago

Oh, it's not good advice financially. In retrospect, the best thing I could have done with my money would have been to buy the most expensive house in the best neighborhood I could possibly manage. Put it all on the table. But I didn't want to play that game, and neither did my partner (We have bad memories of the 2009 recession and both hate the idea of debt). So I suppose I traded the future riches for present flexibility.

wastedhours 5y ago
> the best thing I could have done with my money would have been to buy the most expensive house in the best neighborhood I could possibly manage Usually the best thing to do is to buy the worst house in the best neighbourhood. That way you are in for less cash, but are anchored to the higher prices around you.

blntechie 5y ago

>The main reason this is likely to be bad financially is that your house won’t appreciate like a house in Seattle. So the only solution then is endless appreciation of house prices and salaries?

jshen 5y ago
That’s how our economic system works. It’s also the only possibility if population continues to grow. There are no silver bullets here.
- blntechie 5y ago
  It’s simply astounding to me that if someone runs for an election saying they will reduce home prices, they are guaranteed to lose as land and homeowners simply don’t want that to happen. They don’t care about people who don’t have homes or simply cannot afford to even rent but only about protecting their ‘investment’. The whole setup about HOAs, bylaws, zonal regulations etc. all written around protecting the ‘investment’ instead of just seeing a home as a place to live exacerbates the problem. There actually are several silver bullets to use like - efficient use of land, better zoning regulations and including more use of land to build more homes etc. but they are all non-starters because of greedy land and home owners.