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I’m a FB employee and I’m giving my notice tomorrow. I interviewed with them in 2019 just so I could get a competing offer and had no intention of working ther

I’m a FB employee and I’m giving my notice tomorrow. I interviewed with them in 2019 just so I could get a competing offer and had no intention of working there, but at the end of my interviewing run they were the only offer I had. It was 2x my current salary and it was too hard to turn it down when the money was right there in front of me. I had sincere moral issues with the company but I convinced myself their worst days were likely behind them, that they were committed to doing the work to to fix their reputation. The last 2 years have only gotten worse and it’s very clear the leadership has no interest in making meaningful changes to address social harm caused by the platform. I legit don’t like telling people what I do for a living when I meet someone new at a bar for fear they ask where I work. Couple this with a culture that has masterminded a set of carrots and sticks that gets people to push themselves very hard all of the time, I’m completely burnt out. My GF pretty much told me she can’t handle living with someone so stressed out all the time. I don’t have another job lined up but I’m not too worried. I’m excited for a reset. I’m taking through the end of the year to cool off and prep for interviews. I think it’s imperative at my next job that I at least somewhat believe in the product. I’ve learned that money isn’t enough to keep me going in the face of giving 0 fucks about the company mission.

ethbr0 5y ago
It's a great way to look at peril (physical or moral) posts: "Will I make enough money over my current salary to (1) move substantially closer towards my financial life goals (funding kids' education, house, caring for parents, retirement, etc) & (2) fund my R&R, unemployed, for long enough to put my head and soul back together?" Often the answer is yes, but it's definitely a different way of looking at a job. Still trying to do a great job, but knowing there's a 1/2/4/8 year expiration date on your working there. And yes, at the hazard of putting it out there, I'd say believing in the mission vs not is worth ~25% salary to me.
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
Thanks for the inside perspective > Couple this with a culture that has masterminded a set of carrots and sticks that gets people to push themselves very hard all of the time, I’m completely burnt out. Can you say more about the work/life balance? I've heard Facebook's work life balance described as everything from a cushy "engineer retirement home" to a grueling crushing workload that few can handle. Obviously FB is a big company and it can vary from one manager to another, but I'm interested in hearing more of your perspective.
- bottle_roket 5y ago
  Obviously it’s a huge company with thousands of teams, but I’ve been an engineer on 3 different product teams and certain things have been the same everywhere. I would say purely from a coding perspective the workload is typical ~40ish hours a week. The stress comes from the biannual performance reviews that grade you explicitly across 4 axis. If you got your projects delivered on time with high quality code that’s just 1 axis. What did you do to improve the codebase? What did you do to help drive the mission of the team? How many code reviews did you do(they count)? What did you do to improve the team culture? I think these things are all important, but everywhere else I have worked a lot of these are more implicit. At FB you need to have bullet points and evidence of these contributions every 6 months to get a satisfactory rating. Couple this typical giant corporation red tape (legal, marketing sign off, metrics reviews) to getting anything released. Some people seem to not have trouble keeping up with it, but I find it exhausting. I’ve gotten good reviews during my employment here but it’s been grueling.
  - tdeck 5y ago
    > How many code reviews did you do(they count)? A friend who works at Facebook was telling me recently that since he gets judged explicitly on the code review count, he feels like he needs to immediately drop everything when a code review comes in so he can get to it before someone else approves and it gets merged. As you might expect, he finds that very disruptive.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - codewiz 5y ago
      Well, what would happen if everyone prioritized writing code over reviewing their coworkers' code? Since junior engineers and new hires are not yet able to review code effectively, senior engineers end up reviewing a lot more code than they write. I think recognizing and rewarding this behavior in performance reviews is entirely reasonable for any tech company that wants a sustainable codebase.
goldenManatee 5y ago
Cash in, cash out. Resume is a trail though.
- vmception 5y ago
  saying “ex-Facebook” is still serious clout with few questions from people that appeal to authority unobjectively, you could be an ex Facebook janitor and garner audiences for an investable venture with no questions asked about the specific role and experience and its relation to that venture
- bottle_roket 5y ago
  This experience has definitely given me more compassion to people who have made mistakes. I just hope my future interviewers ask themself: “if my morally questionable actions were written down would anyone want to work with me either?”
- Jensson 5y ago
  > Resume is a trail though. Companies value being able to work on amoral projects so I don't see why having Facebook on your resume would be an issue. Every big corporation is more or less evil so they want people who are fine with working for someone evil.
- qwerpy 5y ago
  Has there ever been any instance of someone being turned down for a job because they had FB on their resume? I see this sentiment pop up a lot on HN but when it comes down to it you could always explain it away with “it was my only offer at the time and I had crushing student debt and/or medical expenses to take of”. If someone has moral qualms about working at FB that’s a different issue but the whole “don’t want to be shunned at dinner parties or future jobs” thing seems to be all self-inflected and unnecessary.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - devoutsalsa 5y ago
smnscu 5y ago
I've been doing Karat interviews for about three years and it's been incredible for my mental health. The work is extremely flexible and there is nothing to worry about when you're not working (I dread deadlines and I'm neurotic enough to never manage a good WLB at a regular SWE gig). The compensation is also pretty good. Apply on their website if interested (https://karat.com/ https://karat.com/) or hit me up at my username at google's mail service if you want a referral (though you shouldn't need one to get in the door, we're hiring pretty aggressively). Hope this helps.
- orange_puff 5y ago
  I've had a karat interview before on behalf of Palantir and by the end of the interview I was less interested in Palantir (although thankfully I did move forward) than I was in Karat. I didn't end up looking too much into it. Do you think engineers with ~1 experience could get hired there for interviews? I am about to get promoted to SWE2 if that helps. I actually enjoy leetcode type problems and have solved over 800, so I think this would align with my interest.
  - notNormal 5y ago
    for me, I was excited to interview with Indeed.com However, their interview process requires a karat interview. Since I was unable to pass the karat interview (due to disability discrimination), I was unable to even speak with the team at Indeed!!!!! Therefore, Indeed misses out, I miss out, and Karat gets paid.
- p1esk 5y ago
  The compensation is also pretty good. What is the compensation?
  - ma2rten 5y ago
    I googled it and it said $60-$100 per hour, which is not that great compared to Facebook pay or other contracting gigs.
- coward123 5y ago
vmception 5y ago
> I’ve learned that money isn’t enough to keep me going in the face of giving 0 fucks about the company mission. (Anymore)
vmception 5y ago
I just wish you would acknowledge your habit of rationalizing everything convenient for you. You rationalized they would change when faced with your otherwise failed FAANG tour. You rationalized staying with them through 20 months of the pandemic because what, you were scared? It was “responsible”? The stock priced mooned? You got addicted to the signing bonus from the first year and vesting cliff, and wanted 1 more year of that gravy train? Bet you got your girlfriend during quarantine too and now something less convenient is about to happen if you don't ditch Facebook. I would give you a pass if you kind of disclaimed your own shortcomings here. 2 year stints at a FAANG is so normal that this “profound” realization is as mockable as the people that announce mundane milestones on Linkedin (see @linkedinflex meme account for examples). Good on your for leaving.
forgingahead 5y ago
Glad you are following your conscience. You'll return all the money / stock options you were issued when you give your notice right? For the (expected) downvoters, this is a legitimate question, because the easy thing is to quit after benefitting from something you eventually discover is "bad". Real moral principle comes from that extra step, usually of hardship, whereby you have the moral realisation and also penance that must be paid. Otherwise we should all do bad things for money, and one day stop then say "whoops, guess it was as evil as I thought" while relaxing in our nice houses by the swimming pool that we bought with those proceeds.
- Bud 5y ago
  Real moral principle comes from giving the money you earned...back to Facebook? So that Facebook can be richer? Maybe think for five seconds before being an amateur moral philosopher in public, with other people's money, next time. You don't seem to be very good at it.
  - throwaway5371 5y ago
    he can donate them to a charity dealing with children mental health issues those developers consciously act against their fellow men. should they get to spend their blood money? the op is asking serious question, its easy to steal some money and then say “oh i was wrong, i am not gonna steal anymore”
    - dagw 5y ago
      If you make the barrier to doing the right thing too high then less people will do the right thing. Would you rather someone stopped doing the wrong thing and kept their "blood money" or just kept doing the wrong thing? its easy to steal some money and then say “oh i was wrong, i am not gonna steal anymore” Good! We want it to be easy for people to stop stealing.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

ethbr0 5y ago

It's a great way to look at peril (physical or moral) posts: "Will I make enough money over my current salary to (1) move substantially closer towards my financial life goals (funding kids' education, house, caring for parents, retirement, etc) & (2) fund my R&R, unemployed, for long enough to put my head and soul back together?" Often the answer is yes, but it's definitely a different way of looking at a job. Still trying to do a great job, but knowing there's a 1/2/4/8 year expiration date on your working there. And yes, at the hazard of putting it out there, I'd say believing in the mission vs not is worth ~25% salary to me.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

Thanks for the inside perspective > Couple this with a culture that has masterminded a set of carrots and sticks that gets people to push themselves very hard all of the time, I’m completely burnt out. Can you say more about the work/life balance? I've heard Facebook's work life balance described as everything from a cushy "engineer retirement home" to a grueling crushing workload that few can handle. Obviously FB is a big company and it can vary from one manager to another, but I'm interested in hearing more of your perspective.

bottle_roket 5y ago
Obviously it’s a huge company with thousands of teams, but I’ve been an engineer on 3 different product teams and certain things have been the same everywhere. I would say purely from a coding perspective the workload is typical ~40ish hours a week. The stress comes from the biannual performance reviews that grade you explicitly across 4 axis. If you got your projects delivered on time with high quality code that’s just 1 axis. What did you do to improve the codebase? What did you do to help drive the mission of the team? How many code reviews did you do(they count)? What did you do to improve the team culture? I think these things are all important, but everywhere else I have worked a lot of these are more implicit. At FB you need to have bullet points and evidence of these contributions every 6 months to get a satisfactory rating. Couple this typical giant corporation red tape (legal, marketing sign off, metrics reviews) to getting anything released. Some people seem to not have trouble keeping up with it, but I find it exhausting. I’ve gotten good reviews during my employment here but it’s been grueling.
- tdeck 5y ago
  > How many code reviews did you do(they count)? A friend who works at Facebook was telling me recently that since he gets judged explicitly on the code review count, he feels like he needs to immediately drop everything when a code review comes in so he can get to it before someone else approves and it gets merged. As you might expect, he finds that very disruptive.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - codewiz 5y ago
    Well, what would happen if everyone prioritized writing code over reviewing their coworkers' code? Since junior engineers and new hires are not yet able to review code effectively, senior engineers end up reviewing a lot more code than they write. I think recognizing and rewarding this behavior in performance reviews is entirely reasonable for any tech company that wants a sustainable codebase.

goldenManatee 5y ago

Cash in, cash out. Resume is a trail though.

vmception 5y ago
saying “ex-Facebook” is still serious clout with few questions from people that appeal to authority unobjectively, you could be an ex Facebook janitor and garner audiences for an investable venture with no questions asked about the specific role and experience and its relation to that venture
bottle_roket 5y ago
This experience has definitely given me more compassion to people who have made mistakes. I just hope my future interviewers ask themself: “if my morally questionable actions were written down would anyone want to work with me either?”
Jensson 5y ago
> Resume is a trail though. Companies value being able to work on amoral projects so I don't see why having Facebook on your resume would be an issue. Every big corporation is more or less evil so they want people who are fine with working for someone evil.
qwerpy 5y ago
Has there ever been any instance of someone being turned down for a job because they had FB on their resume? I see this sentiment pop up a lot on HN but when it comes down to it you could always explain it away with “it was my only offer at the time and I had crushing student debt and/or medical expenses to take of”. If someone has moral qualms about working at FB that’s a different issue but the whole “don’t want to be shunned at dinner parties or future jobs” thing seems to be all self-inflected and unnecessary.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- devoutsalsa 5y ago

smnscu 5y ago

I've been doing Karat interviews for about three years and it's been incredible for my mental health. The work is extremely flexible and there is nothing to worry about when you're not working (I dread deadlines and I'm neurotic enough to never manage a good WLB at a regular SWE gig). The compensation is also pretty good. Apply on their website if interested (https://karat.com/ https://karat.com/) or hit me up at my username at google's mail service if you want a referral (though you shouldn't need one to get in the door, we're hiring pretty aggressively). Hope this helps.

orange_puff 5y ago
I've had a karat interview before on behalf of Palantir and by the end of the interview I was less interested in Palantir (although thankfully I did move forward) than I was in Karat. I didn't end up looking too much into it. Do you think engineers with ~1 experience could get hired there for interviews? I am about to get promoted to SWE2 if that helps. I actually enjoy leetcode type problems and have solved over 800, so I think this would align with my interest.
- notNormal 5y ago
  for me, I was excited to interview with Indeed.com However, their interview process requires a karat interview. Since I was unable to pass the karat interview (due to disability discrimination), I was unable to even speak with the team at Indeed!!!!! Therefore, Indeed misses out, I miss out, and Karat gets paid.
p1esk 5y ago
The compensation is also pretty good. What is the compensation?
- ma2rten 5y ago
  I googled it and it said $60-$100 per hour, which is not that great compared to Facebook pay or other contracting gigs.
coward123 5y ago

vmception 5y ago

> I’ve learned that money isn’t enough to keep me going in the face of giving 0 fucks about the company mission. (Anymore)

vmception 5y ago

I just wish you would acknowledge your habit of rationalizing everything convenient for you. You rationalized they would change when faced with your otherwise failed FAANG tour. You rationalized staying with them through 20 months of the pandemic because what, you were scared? It was “responsible”? The stock priced mooned? You got addicted to the signing bonus from the first year and vesting cliff, and wanted 1 more year of that gravy train? Bet you got your girlfriend during quarantine too and now something less convenient is about to happen if you don't ditch Facebook. I would give you a pass if you kind of disclaimed your own shortcomings here. 2 year stints at a FAANG is so normal that this “profound” realization is as mockable as the people that announce mundane milestones on Linkedin (see @linkedinflex meme account for examples). Good on your for leaving.

forgingahead 5y ago

Glad you are following your conscience. You'll return all the money / stock options you were issued when you give your notice right? For the (expected) downvoters, this is a legitimate question, because the easy thing is to quit after benefitting from something you eventually discover is "bad". Real moral principle comes from that extra step, usually of hardship, whereby you have the moral realisation and also penance that must be paid. Otherwise we should all do bad things for money, and one day stop then say "whoops, guess it was as evil as I thought" while relaxing in our nice houses by the swimming pool that we bought with those proceeds.

Bud 5y ago
Real moral principle comes from giving the money you earned...back to Facebook? So that Facebook can be richer? Maybe think for five seconds before being an amateur moral philosopher in public, with other people's money, next time. You don't seem to be very good at it.
- throwaway5371 5y ago
  he can donate them to a charity dealing with children mental health issues those developers consciously act against their fellow men. should they get to spend their blood money? the op is asking serious question, its easy to steal some money and then say “oh i was wrong, i am not gonna steal anymore”
  - dagw 5y ago
    If you make the barrier to doing the right thing too high then less people will do the right thing. Would you rather someone stopped doing the wrong thing and kept their "blood money" or just kept doing the wrong thing? its easy to steal some money and then say “oh i was wrong, i am not gonna steal anymore” Good! We want it to be easy for people to stop stealing.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]