7 ms·

> Why do you feel entitled to live at any particular location (that was not actually inherited)? For me, it's less about my own life, and more about how terrib

> Why do you feel entitled to live at any particular location (that was not actually inherited)? For me, it's less about my own life, and more about how terrible the world is when people get pushed out of their homes. Most people need stability to have a good life. They do better when they understand their neighborhood. Their kids do better when they can go to the same school system until they are 18. Plus, the employment market is really uneven, so being booted out of a location with good jobs can be a disaster for a family. On top of this, moving is costly by itself, so the cost of moving every year is another tax on those who are struggling. The argument of "you shouldn't feel entitled to this" just sucks. A better lens is "Do our housing policies help or hurt leading a good life." We're not talking about who deserves the latest fancy SUV, but about whether our housing situation screws up many people's lives.

mikem170 5y ago
I agree. I believe zoning is a big impediment. People wouldn't be priced out of their communities if there was more supply of housing at varying prices. Instead current regulations restrict the supply of housing and seem to prioritizing uniformity and property values.
- toss1 5y ago
  Right, so destroy the village to save it. >>People wouldn't be priced out of their communities if there was more supply of housing Many of the communities you find attractive would not exist at that level of attractiveness if the supply were massively increased by abandoning zoning. People live in communities and make their sets of zoning regs to design, build, and maintain the quality of life that makes that community exist, and pay significant-to-massive extra taxes over the course of decades to build that quality of life, which makes the community attractive. Other communities see development and lower individual tax loads as attractive, and build at higher densities. Simply saying that 'zoning restricts supply and is thus unfair because I want in' is over-simplistic and, to be blunt, greedy and entitled. While I don't know what sort of towns you are talking about, the ones that I'm familiar with would see massive environmental destruction if built as you seem to want, since the spacing and open space was specifically created to maintain a healthy ecosystem in which to live. Declaring it is merely about "uniformity and property values" seems like very shallow self-centered thinking.
  - Plasmoid 5y ago
    Why do you think communities shouldn't change? If the population growth rate is 1.8%, why should a city be able to decide that 0% growth is completely acceptable? Would you be willing to pay an uncapped land-value tax on your nicer area? A lot of people are vehemently opposed to paying the full externalities of their choices.
    - toss1 5y ago
      I do not think communities shouldn't change - they do change and grow all the time. Have you ever been to a town meeting? >>Would you be willing to pay an uncapped land-value tax on your nicer area? Of course —WE ALREADY DO—, as pointed out above, everyone already pays much higher taxes - based on land and building value, uncapped - to maintain the environment. (Please do try to keep up and have a clue what you are talking about.) Those changes are fine and should be decided by those affected, not some set of interlopers who just want to basically steal the value that has been created and maintained over decades or centuries. The externality here is yours - if you want to come in and destroy the value that has been created and maintained, are you willing to pay the costs of that - both the costs of decreasing the value in place, and the excess costs paid to maintain the value- i.e., pay the delta in taxes as if the town had had the higher population the whole time?
      - mikem170 5y ago
        > Those changes are fine and should be decided by those affected, not some set of interlopers Those "interlopers" are people's sons and daughters who want to live where they grew up, growing families that need more space, the retired on a fixed income, the working poor struggling to stay housed, those who spend hours commuting, etc. All of these people are your neighbors, not the enemy. > who just want to basically steal the value that has been created and maintained over decades or centuries. That depends on your definition of "value". Do you mean the well-being of everyone in the community? or the market price of your house? For many people jobs, amenities, and culture make for desirable neighborhoods. Single family single use zoning doesn't contribute to any of that.

mikem170 5y ago

I agree. I believe zoning is a big impediment. People wouldn't be priced out of their communities if there was more supply of housing at varying prices. Instead current regulations restrict the supply of housing and seem to prioritizing uniformity and property values.

toss1 5y ago
Right, so destroy the village to save it. >>People wouldn't be priced out of their communities if there was more supply of housing Many of the communities you find attractive would not exist at that level of attractiveness if the supply were massively increased by abandoning zoning. People live in communities and make their sets of zoning regs to design, build, and maintain the quality of life that makes that community exist, and pay significant-to-massive extra taxes over the course of decades to build that quality of life, which makes the community attractive. Other communities see development and lower individual tax loads as attractive, and build at higher densities. Simply saying that 'zoning restricts supply and is thus unfair because I want in' is over-simplistic and, to be blunt, greedy and entitled. While I don't know what sort of towns you are talking about, the ones that I'm familiar with would see massive environmental destruction if built as you seem to want, since the spacing and open space was specifically created to maintain a healthy ecosystem in which to live. Declaring it is merely about "uniformity and property values" seems like very shallow self-centered thinking.
- Plasmoid 5y ago
  Why do you think communities shouldn't change? If the population growth rate is 1.8%, why should a city be able to decide that 0% growth is completely acceptable? Would you be willing to pay an uncapped land-value tax on your nicer area? A lot of people are vehemently opposed to paying the full externalities of their choices.
  - toss1 5y ago
    I do not think communities shouldn't change - they do change and grow all the time. Have you ever been to a town meeting? >>Would you be willing to pay an uncapped land-value tax on your nicer area? Of course —WE ALREADY DO—, as pointed out above, everyone already pays much higher taxes - based on land and building value, uncapped - to maintain the environment. (Please do try to keep up and have a clue what you are talking about.) Those changes are fine and should be decided by those affected, not some set of interlopers who just want to basically steal the value that has been created and maintained over decades or centuries. The externality here is yours - if you want to come in and destroy the value that has been created and maintained, are you willing to pay the costs of that - both the costs of decreasing the value in place, and the excess costs paid to maintain the value- i.e., pay the delta in taxes as if the town had had the higher population the whole time?
    - mikem170 5y ago
      > Those changes are fine and should be decided by those affected, not some set of interlopers Those "interlopers" are people's sons and daughters who want to live where they grew up, growing families that need more space, the retired on a fixed income, the working poor struggling to stay housed, those who spend hours commuting, etc. All of these people are your neighbors, not the enemy. > who just want to basically steal the value that has been created and maintained over decades or centuries. That depends on your definition of "value". Do you mean the well-being of everyone in the community? or the market price of your house? For many people jobs, amenities, and culture make for desirable neighborhoods. Single family single use zoning doesn't contribute to any of that.