7 ms·

Names are NOT just names, unless you believe that all of science should involve rote memorization of arbitrary labels. Calcite is made of calcium. Magnetite is

by driggs 5y ago

Names are NOT just names, unless you believe that all of science should involve rote memorization of arbitrary labels. Calcite is made of calcium. Magnetite is magnetic. Andesite's type locality is The Andes. Azurite is blue (azure). Sure, there's lots of minerals, and the damage is already done in that there's a long list of minerals honoring people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minerals_named_after_people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minerals_named_after_p... But this mineral is very special (which is why you're reading an article about it). Couldn't they have thought of some name, even Latin, having to do with the fact that it's the first known mineral from the lower mantle? From the fact that it was trapped in a diamond? That it lasted one brief second? A prefix added to "perovskite" since it's simply another form of that mineral? Or at least if naming it after a person, how about the guy who discovered it given what a cool discovery story this is. Maybe Ho-Kwang "Dave" Mao deserves honor; give the guy an award. But as far as I can tell from the article, he has nothing to do with this mineral.

akiselev 5y ago
> Would you also defend my naming of a mineral if I thought the guy from `Revenge of the Nerds` should be honored, and called it boogerite? Geologists have had names like fukalite, cummingtonite, taconite, fornacite, and dickite since the 19th century so I don't think they'd even notice.
- driggs 5y ago
  (I already edited my response since what was intended as a joke sounded unintentionally confrontational.) The fact that there are already bad names doesn't justify creating more bad names. If nothing else, I suppose the terrible names are memorable.
  - akiselev 5y ago
    (I took it to be more jovial than confrontational fwiw) Bad names are all we've got left. There are over four thousand named minerals. How many ways can you say the words "blue" or "magnetic" in an Earthly language before you run out of words like azurite or bluite and start using ridiculous (and confusing) names like azurelite and bluilite? I hope you've got several thousand in mind (Anglicized for academia no less) because color and magnetism are two of the main ways minerals are identified. Just a google image search for the word "blue mineral" returns dozens of results in varying shades of blue, let alone turquoise or "blue-green".
    - driggs 5y ago
      The name serves as a mnemonic, not a diagnostic criteria! My brain is overloaded with emacs keybindings, I can’t memorize any more arbitrary lists! What can you tell me about Fe₃O₄? _blank stare_ What can you tell me about Magnetite? A ha!
      - akiselev 5y ago
        > What can you tell me about Magnetite? A ha! What about Fe₃Si (suessite)? Fe²⁺Fe³⁺₂S₄ (greigite)? They too are magnetic. I don't think magnetite is even the only magnetic mineral with Fe₃O₄ and if you want to be precise it should be ferromagnetite, because every thing from Fe₂O₃ (hematite) to FeTiO₃ (ilmenite) are weakly magnetic.
        driggs 5y ago
        You’ve completely missed the point. “Seuss” presumably tells you something meaningful about suessite. “Greig” presumably tells you something meaningful about greigite. “Dave Mao” doesn’t tell you anything about davemaoite.
        rigrets 5y ago
        I've just had a quick search, and apparently both seussite and greigite are named after people, exactly like davemaoite. > Suessite is a rare iron silicide mineral with chemical formula: Fe₃Si. The mineral was named after Professor Hans E. Suess. And: > Greigite is an iron sulfide mineral with the chemical formula Fe2+ Fe3+ 2S 4. It is the sulfur equivalent of the iron oxide magnetite. [and was] named after the mineralogist and physical chemist Joseph W. Greig. (From Wikipedia)
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        akiselev 5y ago
        > You’ve completely missed the point. I don't understand your point because it is nonsense: magnetite was named after Magnes [1] and Pliny wrote about him and his discovery two thousand years ago. The most credible alternatives for the etymology of "magnetite" are Magnesia ad Sipylum (Manisa, TY) or Magnesia, GR, all of which existed long before the concepts of ferro- or electro-magnetism were described. Either way, eurocentrism is the only reason you associate the word "magne-{whatever}" with the physical phenomenon. Magnes/Manisa/Magnesia => magnetite => more than a millenium of development in physics and language => magnetism => you associating "magnetite" with "magnetic". All words are made up. > “Seuss” presumably tells you something meaningful about suessite. > “Greig” presumably tells you something meaningful about greigite. Narrator: they don't. They were keywords to search for before making a nonsensical argument. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnes_the_shepherd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnes_the_shepherd
ajuc 5y ago
I respect your rant, but this ship has sailed long ago. I'm fine with arbitrary names, my pet peeve is names that are actively misleading. For example oxygen, which isn't actually required to make acids but is required for burning stuff. In some languages its name comes from fire, and that makes so much more sense. Even worse example is electron having "negative" charge or elementary particles having "spin".
- R0b0t1 5y ago
  No, I really gotta side with him on this one, it's a huge problem in mathematics. In programming it just becomes annoying as "Joe's Text Editor" gives you something as opposed to "Joe's Polyphasic Maldovian Quirklegag" which gives you almost nothing.
  - Igelau 5y ago
    My monophasic Merovingian quirklegag is deeply offended by this.
Igelau 5y ago
> azure: > sky-blue color; pigment or paint made of powdered lapis lazuli," early 14c., from Old French azur, asur, a color name (12c.), from a false separation of Medieval Latin lazur, lazuri (as though the -l- were the French article l'), which comes from Greek lazour, from Persian lajward, from Lajward, a place in Turkestan mentioned by Marco Polo, where the stone was collected. So there you go. Azure because of where Marco Polo happened to get a blue rock.

by driggs 5y ago

akiselev 5y ago

> Would you also defend my naming of a mineral if I thought the guy from `Revenge of the Nerds` should be honored, and called it boogerite? Geologists have had names like fukalite, cummingtonite, taconite, fornacite, and dickite since the 19th century so I don't think they'd even notice.

driggs 5y ago
(I already edited my response since what was intended as a joke sounded unintentionally confrontational.) The fact that there are already bad names doesn't justify creating more bad names. If nothing else, I suppose the terrible names are memorable.
- akiselev 5y ago
  (I took it to be more jovial than confrontational fwiw) Bad names are all we've got left. There are over four thousand named minerals. How many ways can you say the words "blue" or "magnetic" in an Earthly language before you run out of words like azurite or bluite and start using ridiculous (and confusing) names like azurelite and bluilite? I hope you've got several thousand in mind (Anglicized for academia no less) because color and magnetism are two of the main ways minerals are identified. Just a google image search for the word "blue mineral" returns dozens of results in varying shades of blue, let alone turquoise or "blue-green".
  - driggs 5y ago
    The name serves as a mnemonic, not a diagnostic criteria! My brain is overloaded with emacs keybindings, I can’t memorize any more arbitrary lists! What can you tell me about Fe₃O₄? _blank stare_ What can you tell me about Magnetite? A ha!
    - akiselev 5y ago
      > What can you tell me about Magnetite? A ha! What about Fe₃Si (suessite)? Fe²⁺Fe³⁺₂S₄ (greigite)? They too are magnetic. I don't think magnetite is even the only magnetic mineral with Fe₃O₄ and if you want to be precise it should be ferromagnetite, because every thing from Fe₂O₃ (hematite) to FeTiO₃ (ilmenite) are weakly magnetic.
      - driggs 5y ago
        You’ve completely missed the point. “Seuss” presumably tells you something meaningful about suessite. “Greig” presumably tells you something meaningful about greigite. “Dave Mao” doesn’t tell you anything about davemaoite.
        rigrets 5y ago
        I've just had a quick search, and apparently both seussite and greigite are named after people, exactly like davemaoite. > Suessite is a rare iron silicide mineral with chemical formula: Fe₃Si. The mineral was named after Professor Hans E. Suess. And: > Greigite is an iron sulfide mineral with the chemical formula Fe2+ Fe3+ 2S 4. It is the sulfur equivalent of the iron oxide magnetite. [and was] named after the mineralogist and physical chemist Joseph W. Greig. (From Wikipedia)
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        akiselev 5y ago
        > You’ve completely missed the point. I don't understand your point because it is nonsense: magnetite was named after Magnes [1] and Pliny wrote about him and his discovery two thousand years ago. The most credible alternatives for the etymology of "magnetite" are Magnesia ad Sipylum (Manisa, TY) or Magnesia, GR, all of which existed long before the concepts of ferro- or electro-magnetism were described. Either way, eurocentrism is the only reason you associate the word "magne-{whatever}" with the physical phenomenon. Magnes/Manisa/Magnesia => magnetite => more than a millenium of development in physics and language => magnetism => you associating "magnetite" with "magnetic". All words are made up. > “Seuss” presumably tells you something meaningful about suessite. > “Greig” presumably tells you something meaningful about greigite. Narrator: they don't. They were keywords to search for before making a nonsensical argument. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnes_the_shepherd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnes_the_shepherd

ajuc 5y ago

I respect your rant, but this ship has sailed long ago. I'm fine with arbitrary names, my pet peeve is names that are actively misleading. For example oxygen, which isn't actually required to make acids but is required for burning stuff. In some languages its name comes from fire, and that makes so much more sense. Even worse example is electron having "negative" charge or elementary particles having "spin".

R0b0t1 5y ago
No, I really gotta side with him on this one, it's a huge problem in mathematics. In programming it just becomes annoying as "Joe's Text Editor" gives you something as opposed to "Joe's Polyphasic Maldovian Quirklegag" which gives you almost nothing.
- Igelau 5y ago
  My monophasic Merovingian quirklegag is deeply offended by this.

Igelau 5y ago

> azure: > sky-blue color; pigment or paint made of powdered lapis lazuli," early 14c., from Old French azur, asur, a color name (12c.), from a false separation of Medieval Latin lazur, lazuri (as though the -l- were the French article l'), which comes from Greek lazour, from Persian lajward, from Lajward, a place in Turkestan mentioned by Marco Polo, where the stone was collected. So there you go. Azure because of where Marco Polo happened to get a blue rock.