5 ms·

> Why calculate density of Sweden based on the total country when most people live in a couple cities? That’s just lying. It’s like calculating Canada’s density

by bryans 5y ago

> Why calculate density of Sweden based on the total country when most people live in a couple cities? That’s just lying. It’s like calculating Canada’s density over the Arctic when 80% live within 100 miles of the US border. Even if you want to compare by Sweden's most dense region, it's still 282/km2 versus 8,358/km2. Your comparison makes no sense whatsoever. > And is my statistics about suicides wrong? 2020 was the highest since 2012? You weren't making some generalized point about suicides increasing (which would have been irrelevant to the conversation at hand), you were trying to imply that lockdowns were directly responsible for the increase, which the statistical trend refutes. Your commentary is intentionally disinformative.

refurb 5y ago
https://www.worldscapitalcities.com/capital-facts-for-stockholm-sweden/ https://www.worldscapitalcities.com/capital-facts-for-stockh... ” Population density is concentrated within Stockholm including its immediately surrounding urban area, averaging 11,802 people per square mile (4,279 per square kilometer).” Clearly I’m the one spreading disinformation. Looking at city to city (Singapore is a city state) the density differences are minor. And in in terms of suicides they were up 13% in one year. Singapore seems to think the covid situation was a factor. https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/suicide-highest-record-elderly-mental-health-isolation-covid-19-1984716 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/suicide-highest-re... Not sure kind of games you’re playing here.
- bryans 5y ago
  Sure, we can compare city to city, but the comparison instantly falls apart, because that peak urban density is still nearly HALF of Singapore's entire density. There is no universe in which 50% is considered a "minor" difference, and that's STILL pretending the rest of Sweden doesn't even exist. That is the definition of an apples-to-oranges argument. In regards to the suicides, you just referenced an individual's personal thoughts on a potential reason for part of the increase. That's not evidence of anything, especially given that the statistical trend was already rising sharply upward, meaning there were existing issues being exacerbated long before COVID showed up. Even if we pretend that 100% of the 52 additional suicides in 2020 (a death rate of 12.6/mil) were directly caused by lockdowns, that's still a small fraction of the number of COVID deaths resulting from not having lockdowns, as is evidenced by ANY country's statistics. So, yeah, you are ignoring all of the obvious facts that refute your assertions, which makes you disinformative.
  - refurb 5y ago
    Wow! You sure back down quickly. You originally said we should use Sweden's 25 people/sq km and now you're willing to concede that in reality it's half? And sorry, but Singapore and Stockholm have the same population density in terms of order of magnitude. Come on man. Just admit you were wrong.
    - bryans 5y ago
      Are you kidding me right now? You suggested we use the densest part of Sweden as a comparison, which is not how comparisons actually work, but I humored you anyway -- and it's still nearly HALF, which makes it not even comparable. So even when you unfairly nit-pick a particular region of Sweden, you're still completely wrong in all of your assertions. Your trolling is off the charts right now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore Total area: 728.6 km2 Density: 7,804/km2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm Urban area: 381.63 km2 Urban density: 4,200/km2 Metro area: 6,519 km2 Metro density: 370/km2
      - refurb 5y ago
        Half the density is "not even comparable"? You're not even arguing in good faith. You've just been proven wrong and now you're moving the goalposts and trying again. My point was nothing more than the density is not that different, and your numbers show that.
        bryans 5y ago
        This is so far beyond ridiculous at this point. Everything you say is the opposite of reality and with the direction intention of gaslighting and causing chaos. You are a troll of the highest order, and I'm honestly not sure why you're allowed to pull this kind of shit on HN.
        refurb 5y ago
        Seems like you're the one gaslighting. The entire point I was making was that despite a very strict lockdown, Singapore is seeing really significant case numbers and deaths and they still aren't through it yet. All of those things are true. Once the total costs of lockdown are fully tallied, we may find out the return on those restrictions weren't as high as we thought they would be.

by bryans 5y ago

refurb 5y ago

https://www.worldscapitalcities.com/capital-facts-for-stockholm-sweden/ https://www.worldscapitalcities.com/capital-facts-for-stockh... ” Population density is concentrated within Stockholm including its immediately surrounding urban area, averaging 11,802 people per square mile (4,279 per square kilometer).” Clearly I’m the one spreading disinformation. Looking at city to city (Singapore is a city state) the density differences are minor. And in in terms of suicides they were up 13% in one year. Singapore seems to think the covid situation was a factor. https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/suicide-highest-record-elderly-mental-health-isolation-covid-19-1984716 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/suicide-highest-re... Not sure kind of games you’re playing here.

bryans 5y ago
Sure, we can compare city to city, but the comparison instantly falls apart, because that peak urban density is still nearly HALF of Singapore's entire density. There is no universe in which 50% is considered a "minor" difference, and that's STILL pretending the rest of Sweden doesn't even exist. That is the definition of an apples-to-oranges argument. In regards to the suicides, you just referenced an individual's personal thoughts on a potential reason for part of the increase. That's not evidence of anything, especially given that the statistical trend was already rising sharply upward, meaning there were existing issues being exacerbated long before COVID showed up. Even if we pretend that 100% of the 52 additional suicides in 2020 (a death rate of 12.6/mil) were directly caused by lockdowns, that's still a small fraction of the number of COVID deaths resulting from not having lockdowns, as is evidenced by ANY country's statistics. So, yeah, you are ignoring all of the obvious facts that refute your assertions, which makes you disinformative.
- refurb 5y ago
  Wow! You sure back down quickly. You originally said we should use Sweden's 25 people/sq km and now you're willing to concede that in reality it's half? And sorry, but Singapore and Stockholm have the same population density in terms of order of magnitude. Come on man. Just admit you were wrong.
  - bryans 5y ago
    Are you kidding me right now? You suggested we use the densest part of Sweden as a comparison, which is not how comparisons actually work, but I humored you anyway -- and it's still nearly HALF, which makes it not even comparable. So even when you unfairly nit-pick a particular region of Sweden, you're still completely wrong in all of your assertions. Your trolling is off the charts right now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore Total area: 728.6 km2 Density: 7,804/km2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm Urban area: 381.63 km2 Urban density: 4,200/km2 Metro area: 6,519 km2 Metro density: 370/km2
    - refurb 5y ago
      Half the density is "not even comparable"? You're not even arguing in good faith. You've just been proven wrong and now you're moving the goalposts and trying again. My point was nothing more than the density is not that different, and your numbers show that.
      - bryans 5y ago
        This is so far beyond ridiculous at this point. Everything you say is the opposite of reality and with the direction intention of gaslighting and causing chaos. You are a troll of the highest order, and I'm honestly not sure why you're allowed to pull this kind of shit on HN.
        refurb 5y ago
        Seems like you're the one gaslighting. The entire point I was making was that despite a very strict lockdown, Singapore is seeing really significant case numbers and deaths and they still aren't through it yet. All of those things are true. Once the total costs of lockdown are fully tallied, we may find out the return on those restrictions weren't as high as we thought they would be.