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Yeah, I've never really understand this. If I go to a shop and "the landlord" charges me a fee, or fines me, the effect is exactly the same as if the business

Yeah, I've never really understand this. If I go to a shop and "the landlord" charges me a fee, or fines me, the effect is exactly the same as if the business were responsible. Imagine if the landlord whacked up a turnstile and imposed a $1 fee for everyone entering the building. Same effect. Tons of people would refuse to go on principle, myself included.

jdavis703 5y ago
The cost of “free” parking is added to the prices the store charges. It’s better to unbundle these costs — an urban parking space can cost over $50,000 to build. That’s not cheap, and will materially impact rents and the price consumers have to pay.
- throwaway55421 5y ago
  The cost of the rent is also added to prices the store charges. The rent close to a metro station is far higher and often "local" stores are much more expensive as a result. You could attempt to unbundle that by charging people an entry fee too. Why not itemise the electricity bill whilst you're at it, etc. It's penny pinching and adds friction. I've been to Trader Joe's, if you're going there you're not at all price sensitive. You need a system to avoid people using the car park as long term car storage or for commuting, that's it.
  - djbusby 5y ago
    Cars left over 24h will be charged $$/day
  - ac29 5y ago
    > It's penny pinching and adds friction. I've been to Trader Joe's, if you're going there you're not at all price sensitive. At least where I live, Trader Joe's is probably the cheapest grocer that isn't explicitly a discount retailer like Grocery Outlet. Something like 80% of TJ products are house brands.
    - mixmastamyk 5y ago
      Indeed, not the absolute cheapest but sometimes half the price of our Albertsons.
  - Ma8ee 5y ago
    The cost of the rent is unavoidable. You can't buy anything in the store without walking in the store and buy goods that has been stored in the store The cost of parking is avoidable. You don't have to drive and park to buy goods in the store. Why should I that walk or bicycle to the store sponsor you driving and parking by paying higher prices so you can park for free?
    - throwaway55421 5y ago
      I already address this in my earlier comment, there is an obvious distinction between urban and rural locations. If you're not paying more for your shopping in an urban location then this is almost always going to be because the costs are amortized over all the stores in a chain. There is no free lunch, someone ends up paying more than they should somewhere.
      - TheCoelacanth 5y ago
        Prices usually are higher in urban locations. They also make up for the higher costs to some extent through higher volume.
    - LocalH 5y ago
      This mindset right here is why the various large governments of the Western world are fucked. "Why should I have to pay for something I don't need, because others do?"
      - Ma8ee 5y ago
        I hope you aren’t serious. I’m happy to pay taxes to pay for universal healthcare, libraries and sustainable infrastructure. I’m not willing to pay higher prices in a private store to sponsor the other people’s egoistic, highly inefficient, and environmental destroying, transportation by car.
  - Gravityloss 5y ago
    Hmm, I guess I don't understand why people who don't park should pay for parking? Sure, charging an entry fee might make sense if people were hanging out in say a cafe, without buying anything, it was really full and the rent was really high. I've heard that such places exist. Over here, paying for parking has gotten really easy in the last five years, I think two apps, both work great: Easypark for streets and parking lots, and Moovit for malls. Moovit works automatically with license plate cameras in mall garages and charges you those minimal amounts. Moovit is a completely automatic thing, once you've installed the app, added your credit card and license plate, you never have to touch it again.
    - throwaway55421 5y ago
      If people don't park, and this is more than a minority use case, there probably shouldn't even be parking, because it's probably a massive waste of space. None of what you've written sounds convenient, it sounds like a massive pain in the arse. If I do have to pay, I'd rather just stick some cash in a machine on the way out, paying for the time I used then and there and making it impossible to be fined or get stuck messing about with an app when something inevitably goes down. Cashless systems for physical places should honestly be illegal, it would fix a lot of this scammy nonsense.
      - Gravityloss 5y ago
        Sure, you can of course also pay with cash, it's just more of a hassle for me, that's why I choose the automatic system. In a mall I go to, the first parking hour is free. This means it's less work for also people without the app. The first hour free also means the pedestrian shoppers are most of the time subsidizing my parking. The mall is on top of a train station and multiple tram lines, so there are a lot of pedestrians. The mall is for the large part just restaurants. There is absolutely massive parking garage going multiple levels deep underground, and they are mostly empty. I wish street parking was also more automated, maybe it would be good if you would get a notification "this will cost X per hour". Parking ticket because you forgot to tap your app is not fun.
- CircleSpokes 5y ago
  Why is it better to unbundle them? I don't see why a business or person would want the extra hassle of paying for parking separately. Like paying for event parking is one thing but paying to shop at a store is beyond silly. What is next paying to use the drive through?
  - Eelongate 5y ago
    > Why is it better to unbundle them? Better... for who? I don't know if it's better for either business or society, but it's better for me because I walk to the grocery store and never take my car. If the price of parking is unbundled from the price of food, then I don't have to pay for something I'm not using.
    - djbusby 5y ago
      You hardly do anyway - these costs are aggregated in with existing costs (labor being the largest) across 1000s of products and 10000s of transactions.
      - Eelongate 5y ago
        If my share of the cost is insignificant, then car drivers shouldn't be too bent out of shape about me not having to pay it.
        djbusby 5y ago
        The point is that is costs more to calculate the pennies difference than the sum of the pennies
    - throwaway55421 5y ago
      If it's walkable then the car drivers are paying more than they should because rent is bundled in to the prices. There's no free lunch either way here.
      - 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

jdavis703 5y ago

The cost of “free” parking is added to the prices the store charges. It’s better to unbundle these costs — an urban parking space can cost over $50,000 to build. That’s not cheap, and will materially impact rents and the price consumers have to pay.

throwaway55421 5y ago
The cost of the rent is also added to prices the store charges. The rent close to a metro station is far higher and often "local" stores are much more expensive as a result. You could attempt to unbundle that by charging people an entry fee too. Why not itemise the electricity bill whilst you're at it, etc. It's penny pinching and adds friction. I've been to Trader Joe's, if you're going there you're not at all price sensitive. You need a system to avoid people using the car park as long term car storage or for commuting, that's it.
- djbusby 5y ago
  Cars left over 24h will be charged $$/day
- ac29 5y ago
  > It's penny pinching and adds friction. I've been to Trader Joe's, if you're going there you're not at all price sensitive. At least where I live, Trader Joe's is probably the cheapest grocer that isn't explicitly a discount retailer like Grocery Outlet. Something like 80% of TJ products are house brands.
  - mixmastamyk 5y ago
    Indeed, not the absolute cheapest but sometimes half the price of our Albertsons.
- Ma8ee 5y ago
  The cost of the rent is unavoidable. You can't buy anything in the store without walking in the store and buy goods that has been stored in the store The cost of parking is avoidable. You don't have to drive and park to buy goods in the store. Why should I that walk or bicycle to the store sponsor you driving and parking by paying higher prices so you can park for free?
  - throwaway55421 5y ago
    I already address this in my earlier comment, there is an obvious distinction between urban and rural locations. If you're not paying more for your shopping in an urban location then this is almost always going to be because the costs are amortized over all the stores in a chain. There is no free lunch, someone ends up paying more than they should somewhere.
    - TheCoelacanth 5y ago
      Prices usually are higher in urban locations. They also make up for the higher costs to some extent through higher volume.
  - LocalH 5y ago
    This mindset right here is why the various large governments of the Western world are fucked. "Why should I have to pay for something I don't need, because others do?"
    - Ma8ee 5y ago
      I hope you aren’t serious. I’m happy to pay taxes to pay for universal healthcare, libraries and sustainable infrastructure. I’m not willing to pay higher prices in a private store to sponsor the other people’s egoistic, highly inefficient, and environmental destroying, transportation by car.
- Gravityloss 5y ago
  Hmm, I guess I don't understand why people who don't park should pay for parking? Sure, charging an entry fee might make sense if people were hanging out in say a cafe, without buying anything, it was really full and the rent was really high. I've heard that such places exist. Over here, paying for parking has gotten really easy in the last five years, I think two apps, both work great: Easypark for streets and parking lots, and Moovit for malls. Moovit works automatically with license plate cameras in mall garages and charges you those minimal amounts. Moovit is a completely automatic thing, once you've installed the app, added your credit card and license plate, you never have to touch it again.
  - throwaway55421 5y ago
    If people don't park, and this is more than a minority use case, there probably shouldn't even be parking, because it's probably a massive waste of space. None of what you've written sounds convenient, it sounds like a massive pain in the arse. If I do have to pay, I'd rather just stick some cash in a machine on the way out, paying for the time I used then and there and making it impossible to be fined or get stuck messing about with an app when something inevitably goes down. Cashless systems for physical places should honestly be illegal, it would fix a lot of this scammy nonsense.
    - Gravityloss 5y ago
      Sure, you can of course also pay with cash, it's just more of a hassle for me, that's why I choose the automatic system. In a mall I go to, the first parking hour is free. This means it's less work for also people without the app. The first hour free also means the pedestrian shoppers are most of the time subsidizing my parking. The mall is on top of a train station and multiple tram lines, so there are a lot of pedestrians. The mall is for the large part just restaurants. There is absolutely massive parking garage going multiple levels deep underground, and they are mostly empty. I wish street parking was also more automated, maybe it would be good if you would get a notification "this will cost X per hour". Parking ticket because you forgot to tap your app is not fun.
CircleSpokes 5y ago
Why is it better to unbundle them? I don't see why a business or person would want the extra hassle of paying for parking separately. Like paying for event parking is one thing but paying to shop at a store is beyond silly. What is next paying to use the drive through?
- Eelongate 5y ago
  > Why is it better to unbundle them? Better... for who? I don't know if it's better for either business or society, but it's better for me because I walk to the grocery store and never take my car. If the price of parking is unbundled from the price of food, then I don't have to pay for something I'm not using.
  - djbusby 5y ago
    You hardly do anyway - these costs are aggregated in with existing costs (labor being the largest) across 1000s of products and 10000s of transactions.
    - Eelongate 5y ago
      If my share of the cost is insignificant, then car drivers shouldn't be too bent out of shape about me not having to pay it.
      - djbusby 5y ago
        The point is that is costs more to calculate the pennies difference than the sum of the pennies
  - throwaway55421 5y ago
    If it's walkable then the car drivers are paying more than they should because rent is bundled in to the prices. There's no free lunch either way here.
    - 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]