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One of my local shopping complexes had their landlord add tolls to the previously free parking. It was all done via an incredibly shitty app that required you

One of my local shopping complexes had their landlord add tolls to the previously free parking. It was all done via an incredibly shitty app that required you to set up an account and link a credit card to pay. It was slow, hard to use, and crashed a couple of times on me while I was trying to set up the account forcing me to start from scratch. They also had kiosks, but they were not working. I used to go to that shopping complex a couple of times a month, but now it has been almost 4 years and I have not been back. All of the stores and restaurants I used to frequent have since closed up and moved out anyway, so there isn't much draw. I'm not even sure what is in there now, if anything. I uninstalled the parking app.

vineyardmike 5y ago
Golden example or greedy landlords killing their golden goose.
- _nalply 5y ago
  Not really, it's more the bad execution that killed the goose. Only misers would object to a small fee for parking. It's the hassle of paying that keeps people away. Where I live all shopping centers in the town have the same fees for parking, CHF 1 for the first hour then CHF ½ for every half hour. You can pay with an app, for example https://easypark.ch https://easypark.ch, or by cash at a central parking meter by the entrance which accepts credit cards, too, and even returns change. It's not really a joy but acceptable.
  - throwaway55421 5y ago
    In a lot (most?) of the US most places are far enough away from each other that using a shop's car park as somewhere to leave your car (e.g. while commuting) does not happen. There is also no viable public transport. Charging for parking, then, is nonsensical. It's a cost imposed on your business just like the rent. You could try to recover your rent/land costs by charging a flat fee for people to enter your shop on foot. Why not? Well, because no-one will come any more.
    - Eelongate 5y ago
      > In a lot (most?) of the US most places are far enough away [...] I've never seen a grocery store with a parking garage (opposed to a parking lot) that wasn't in a city. If the grocery store has a parking garage instead of a parking lot, then it is almost certainly in an urban area and public transit and is within walking distance of many residences and businesses. This is in fact the case for the particular Trader Joe's in question. Look up "Trader Joes’s at Hollywood and Vine". That neighborhood is easily walkable, has at least some public transit, and their parking garage is within easy walking distance of numerous other businesses.
      - erik_seaberg 5y ago
        Los Altos, CA (pop. 28,976) has a retail district that I assume they tried to keep small and dense, because it’s about five blocks across and the Safeway grocery store is built upstairs from its garage. There’s only one bus route that runs every 45 minutes and stops at 5:30 today. These are surrounded by miles of suburbs. I assume a small number of people walk to it, but a much larger number drive.
        Eelongate 5y ago
        Parking garages only make economic sense when the cost of enough land for a parking lot exceeds the cost of making a parking garage, which is almost never true except in urban areas. I'm sure there might be rare exceptions, but the Trader Joe's in question (Trader Joe’s at Hollywood and Vine) is definitely not one of those exceptions.
cracell 5y ago
I would be very surprised if Trader Joe's lease didn't include parking conditions for exactly this reason. Bad parking kills many businesses.
throwaway55421 5y ago
Yeah, I've never really understand this. If I go to a shop and "the landlord" charges me a fee, or fines me, the effect is exactly the same as if the business were responsible. Imagine if the landlord whacked up a turnstile and imposed a $1 fee for everyone entering the building. Same effect. Tons of people would refuse to go on principle, myself included.
- jdavis703 5y ago
  The cost of “free” parking is added to the prices the store charges. It’s better to unbundle these costs — an urban parking space can cost over $50,000 to build. That’s not cheap, and will materially impact rents and the price consumers have to pay.
  - throwaway55421 5y ago
    The cost of the rent is also added to prices the store charges. The rent close to a metro station is far higher and often "local" stores are much more expensive as a result. You could attempt to unbundle that by charging people an entry fee too. Why not itemise the electricity bill whilst you're at it, etc. It's penny pinching and adds friction. I've been to Trader Joe's, if you're going there you're not at all price sensitive. You need a system to avoid people using the car park as long term car storage or for commuting, that's it.
    - djbusby 5y ago
      Cars left over 24h will be charged $$/day
    - ac29 5y ago
      > It's penny pinching and adds friction. I've been to Trader Joe's, if you're going there you're not at all price sensitive. At least where I live, Trader Joe's is probably the cheapest grocer that isn't explicitly a discount retailer like Grocery Outlet. Something like 80% of TJ products are house brands.
SteveGerencser 5y ago
You just described nearly every parking lot in downtown Nashville. Not to be outdone, they've taken it to a new level where three different companies own the same lot and you can only tell which company owns the lot by looking to see what color lines you are parked in. Park in the lot, but pay at the wrong kiosk or use the wrong app, you get an extra $50 boot added to your car.
errcorrectcode 5y ago
Gotcha! capitalism monetizing everything possible.
animal531 5y ago
Here in the 3rd world you pay for parking at almost all the malls you go to. But since Covid kicked in they've either had to change everything to be contactless, or to just open the booms (which is what the majority have done).

vineyardmike 5y ago

Golden example or greedy landlords killing their golden goose.

_nalply 5y ago
Not really, it's more the bad execution that killed the goose. Only misers would object to a small fee for parking. It's the hassle of paying that keeps people away. Where I live all shopping centers in the town have the same fees for parking, CHF 1 for the first hour then CHF ½ for every half hour. You can pay with an app, for example https://easypark.ch https://easypark.ch, or by cash at a central parking meter by the entrance which accepts credit cards, too, and even returns change. It's not really a joy but acceptable.
- throwaway55421 5y ago
  In a lot (most?) of the US most places are far enough away from each other that using a shop's car park as somewhere to leave your car (e.g. while commuting) does not happen. There is also no viable public transport. Charging for parking, then, is nonsensical. It's a cost imposed on your business just like the rent. You could try to recover your rent/land costs by charging a flat fee for people to enter your shop on foot. Why not? Well, because no-one will come any more.
  - Eelongate 5y ago
    > In a lot (most?) of the US most places are far enough away [...] I've never seen a grocery store with a parking garage (opposed to a parking lot) that wasn't in a city. If the grocery store has a parking garage instead of a parking lot, then it is almost certainly in an urban area and public transit and is within walking distance of many residences and businesses. This is in fact the case for the particular Trader Joe's in question. Look up "Trader Joes’s at Hollywood and Vine". That neighborhood is easily walkable, has at least some public transit, and their parking garage is within easy walking distance of numerous other businesses.
    - erik_seaberg 5y ago
      Los Altos, CA (pop. 28,976) has a retail district that I assume they tried to keep small and dense, because it’s about five blocks across and the Safeway grocery store is built upstairs from its garage. There’s only one bus route that runs every 45 minutes and stops at 5:30 today. These are surrounded by miles of suburbs. I assume a small number of people walk to it, but a much larger number drive.
      - Eelongate 5y ago
        Parking garages only make economic sense when the cost of enough land for a parking lot exceeds the cost of making a parking garage, which is almost never true except in urban areas. I'm sure there might be rare exceptions, but the Trader Joe's in question (Trader Joe’s at Hollywood and Vine) is definitely not one of those exceptions.

cracell 5y ago

I would be very surprised if Trader Joe's lease didn't include parking conditions for exactly this reason. Bad parking kills many businesses.

throwaway55421 5y ago

Yeah, I've never really understand this. If I go to a shop and "the landlord" charges me a fee, or fines me, the effect is exactly the same as if the business were responsible. Imagine if the landlord whacked up a turnstile and imposed a $1 fee for everyone entering the building. Same effect. Tons of people would refuse to go on principle, myself included.

jdavis703 5y ago
The cost of “free” parking is added to the prices the store charges. It’s better to unbundle these costs — an urban parking space can cost over $50,000 to build. That’s not cheap, and will materially impact rents and the price consumers have to pay.
- throwaway55421 5y ago
  The cost of the rent is also added to prices the store charges. The rent close to a metro station is far higher and often "local" stores are much more expensive as a result. You could attempt to unbundle that by charging people an entry fee too. Why not itemise the electricity bill whilst you're at it, etc. It's penny pinching and adds friction. I've been to Trader Joe's, if you're going there you're not at all price sensitive. You need a system to avoid people using the car park as long term car storage or for commuting, that's it.
  - djbusby 5y ago
    Cars left over 24h will be charged $$/day
  - ac29 5y ago
    > It's penny pinching and adds friction. I've been to Trader Joe's, if you're going there you're not at all price sensitive. At least where I live, Trader Joe's is probably the cheapest grocer that isn't explicitly a discount retailer like Grocery Outlet. Something like 80% of TJ products are house brands.

SteveGerencser 5y ago

You just described nearly every parking lot in downtown Nashville. Not to be outdone, they've taken it to a new level where three different companies own the same lot and you can only tell which company owns the lot by looking to see what color lines you are parked in. Park in the lot, but pay at the wrong kiosk or use the wrong app, you get an extra $50 boot added to your car.

errcorrectcode 5y ago

Gotcha! capitalism monetizing everything possible.

animal531 5y ago

Here in the 3rd world you pay for parking at almost all the malls you go to. But since Covid kicked in they've either had to change everything to be contactless, or to just open the booms (which is what the majority have done).