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You have a nice thing. You engage in conservation to preserve that nice thing. Someone else gets mad that they can't just pave over your nice thing. Help me un

You have a nice thing. You engage in conservation to preserve that nice thing. Someone else gets mad that they can't just pave over your nice thing. Help me understand how you're on the side of progressivism, here.

asguy 5y ago
You make it sounds like they’re conserving their nice things, by not letting other people have them. Gate keeping progress. Help me understand how /you’re/ on the side of progressivism, here.
- teakettle42 5y ago
  You cannot always have your cake and eat it too. If you pave over open spaces, you no longer have open spaces. Is paving over nature what you consider to be progress?
  - monocasa 5y ago
    I don't really consider hay farms to be 'nature', any more than houseplants are.
    - teakettle42 5y ago
      Hay meadows aren't a more natural environment than paving them over, building a large high-density apartment block, and placing houseplants in those apartments? Do they not host more ecological diversity? Are they not more environmentally productive? Do hay farms introduce parking lots, traffic, roads, hundreds of housing units, and on average, ~1.5 cars for every unit?
      - monocasa 5y ago
        If Boulder actually cared about all of that, they'd allow density where the pavement already exists. This is all pearl clutching to keep out the poors with a fence that doesn't make you sad when you look at the fence.
        teakettle42 5y ago
        Low-density makes the place nicer to live. That’s why people want to live in Boulder in the first place, as opposed to Longmont, Broomfield, or Denver — all of which they’re free to choose, instead of spending more to live Boulder. Why should the very traits that make Boulder desirable be destroyed to accommodate everyone that desires to live there?
        monocasa 5y ago
        It's not the "low density" that makes someone choose Boulder over Longmont or Broomfield. Longmont and Broomfield already are less dense than Boulder. Boulderites who cry about 'keeping the low density' are just using that as a thin veneer to mask their classism. That very classism has all but ruined what made Boulder special in the first place, killing off the arts scene.
        NikolaeVarius 5y ago
        How the hell is Longmont or Broomfield Dense? Its a damn suburb where farms exist literally after crossing a single 4 lane road. Its a 20 minute bike ride to get to the "downtown area" from a majority of the area.
        oh_sigh 5y ago
        Perhaps the fence is part of the reason it is so expensive in the first place? Am I supposed to feel bad for poor people who cannot live in Boulder, so they have to live 20 minutes away?
        monocasa 5y ago
        This is the exact classism that has pretty much killed Boulder. I lived there for 12 years, and every time I go back it does a better job of convincing me I made the right choice.
        oh_sigh 5y ago
        Killed the Boulder you wanted, which was not the Boulder that the people who actually live there want. If Boulder was actually dead, home buyers would not need to pay $1M to get a 1970s ranch.
- SuoDuanDao 5y ago
  Sounds to me like they're just making a cogent argument for conservatism.
poulsbohemian 5y ago
I’m not in Colorado, but I can tell you a similar story in my area… county wouldn’t allow the construction of a Costco, which would have brought desperately needed jobs and tax revenues, because of zoning. Instead on that same ground they will allow a mini-storage or a gas station, because those fit the zoning. This is on a stretch of highway that the county and state have deemed to be “protected farm land.” I’m as progressive as they come and completely agree with the sentiment that we need to protect green spaces, but the way the sausage actually gets made doesn’t achieve any good for anyone.

asguy 5y ago

You make it sounds like they’re conserving their nice things, by not letting other people have them. Gate keeping progress. Help me understand how /you’re/ on the side of progressivism, here.

teakettle42 5y ago
You cannot always have your cake and eat it too. If you pave over open spaces, you no longer have open spaces. Is paving over nature what you consider to be progress?
- monocasa 5y ago
  I don't really consider hay farms to be 'nature', any more than houseplants are.
  - teakettle42 5y ago
    Hay meadows aren't a more natural environment than paving them over, building a large high-density apartment block, and placing houseplants in those apartments? Do they not host more ecological diversity? Are they not more environmentally productive? Do hay farms introduce parking lots, traffic, roads, hundreds of housing units, and on average, ~1.5 cars for every unit?
    - monocasa 5y ago
      If Boulder actually cared about all of that, they'd allow density where the pavement already exists. This is all pearl clutching to keep out the poors with a fence that doesn't make you sad when you look at the fence.
      - teakettle42 5y ago
        Low-density makes the place nicer to live. That’s why people want to live in Boulder in the first place, as opposed to Longmont, Broomfield, or Denver — all of which they’re free to choose, instead of spending more to live Boulder. Why should the very traits that make Boulder desirable be destroyed to accommodate everyone that desires to live there?
        monocasa 5y ago
        It's not the "low density" that makes someone choose Boulder over Longmont or Broomfield. Longmont and Broomfield already are less dense than Boulder. Boulderites who cry about 'keeping the low density' are just using that as a thin veneer to mask their classism. That very classism has all but ruined what made Boulder special in the first place, killing off the arts scene.
        NikolaeVarius 5y ago
        How the hell is Longmont or Broomfield Dense? Its a damn suburb where farms exist literally after crossing a single 4 lane road. Its a 20 minute bike ride to get to the "downtown area" from a majority of the area.
      - oh_sigh 5y ago
        Perhaps the fence is part of the reason it is so expensive in the first place? Am I supposed to feel bad for poor people who cannot live in Boulder, so they have to live 20 minutes away?
        monocasa 5y ago
        This is the exact classism that has pretty much killed Boulder. I lived there for 12 years, and every time I go back it does a better job of convincing me I made the right choice.
        oh_sigh 5y ago
        Killed the Boulder you wanted, which was not the Boulder that the people who actually live there want. If Boulder was actually dead, home buyers would not need to pay $1M to get a 1970s ranch.
SuoDuanDao 5y ago
Sounds to me like they're just making a cogent argument for conservatism.

poulsbohemian 5y ago

I’m not in Colorado, but I can tell you a similar story in my area… county wouldn’t allow the construction of a Costco, which would have brought desperately needed jobs and tax revenues, because of zoning. Instead on that same ground they will allow a mini-storage or a gas station, because those fit the zoning. This is on a stretch of highway that the county and state have deemed to be “protected farm land.” I’m as progressive as they come and completely agree with the sentiment that we need to protect green spaces, but the way the sausage actually gets made doesn’t achieve any good for anyone.