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The call for NATO to act just further embarrasses the EU. How can the EU not handle something basic like protecting its own border? How can they allow an EU air

by rp1 5y ago

The call for NATO to act just further embarrasses the EU. How can the EU not handle something basic like protecting its own border? How can they allow an EU airplane to be taken out of the sky to kidnap an EU resident? How can they even consider a natural gas pipeline with Russia when Russia invaded Ukraine less than 10 years ago and is amassing nearly 100000 troops on the border today?

codezero 5y ago
Bureaucracies have a hard time fighting against asymmetrical warfare.
coolspot 5y ago
> How can they even consider a natural gas pipeline with Russia Germany closed all their nuclear stations. They need lots of energy for heating and industries. Russia can take whole Ukraine if it wants and Germany will still buy Russian gas.
- break_the_bank 5y ago
  I don't understand nations being anti-nuclear. Also, why would you take down nuclear without having a good substitute?
  - nix23 5y ago
    >Also, why would you take down nuclear without having a good substitute? Germany has coal, it help to preserve workplaces and one has not todo/think much....climate is not so important there.
  - rasz 5y ago
    Because this forces future German governments to keep buying Russian gas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schr%C3%B6der#Relationship_with_Gazprom_and_Rosneft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schr%C3%B6der#Relation... >In his first term, Schröder's government decided to phase out nuclear power >As Chancellor, Gerhard Schröder was a strong advocate of the Nord Stream pipeline project, which now supplies Russian gas directly to Germany >In 2016, Schröder switched to become manager of Nord Stream 2, an expansion of the original pipeline in which Gazprom is sole shareholder.[92] >In 2017, Russia nominated Schröder to also serve as an independent director of the board of its biggest oil producer Rosneft.
    - dmos62 5y ago
      That is some blatant corruption.
      - nix23 5y ago
        No, that's how germany and the eu works, work in the eu as privacy protection officer after that change to google. https://www.businessinsider.com/google-job-hires-raise-concerns-about-political-influence-in-europe-2016-6?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/google-job-hires-raise-conce...
  - max002 5y ago
    Hmm... See: 1. Chernobyl 2. Fukushima Unless we speak molten salt i dont understand people whp would build new 'classical' reactors I dont
  - inglor_cz 5y ago
    1. Emphasize all the negatives. 2. Minimize or outright deny all the positives. 3. Rinse and repeat for 40 years or so. Not that different from anti-vax.
  - throwawaylinux 5y ago
    Fossil fuel energy being among the most powerful and corrupt industries on the planet, in the pocket of countless thousands of politicians and bureaucrats doesn't give any hints? They've caused countries to go to war, killed millions, and are still mostly exempt from paying for any externalities from their product that have been known for a century. Killing nuclear is a walk in the park.
nix23 5y ago
>The call for NATO to act just further embarrasses the EU Haha exactly what i was thinking, maybe ask china too if they can help ;) >How can they even consider a natural gas pipeline with Russia invading Ukraine less than 10 years ago and amassing nearly 100000 troops on the border today? But that's where you are wrong, russia cannot accept that the nato places it's rockets into Ukraine, the US=NATO pushed russia into those steps. And then those NeoNazis groups supported by europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party) And much more...like the buy'd snipers. The US and Europe play dirty games with russia and the ukraine.
inglor_cz 5y ago
This is an asylum/immigration crisis and EU is a group of countries whose views on asylum and immigration politics are very divergent. It is likely that the current model of (ab)using asylum laws to facilitate mass migration into the richest EU countries is unsustainable, but any viable reform of the status quo will still hit against the Scylla and Charybda of "we do not want any more third-worlders of unclear identity here" (basically the Polish or Danish position) vs. "it is our duty to seriously process and examine every single asylum application even if we cannot return rejected applicants to their countries of origin" (the German position).
- chewz 5y ago
  If these people were legitimate asylum seekers they could have applied for asylum at every border crossing to Poland. It seems these people realize they have zero chance of obtaining asylum in EU and are getting frustrated that after paying 7-10 thousand dollars per person to traffickers had been stuck at the border… Formally these people are arriving to Minsk on tourist visas. A bit of survival tourism in East European forrest isn’t something they have been expecting? Complain to the tourist office…
- redis_mlc 5y ago
  > This is an asylum/immigration crisis and EU is a group of countries whose views on asylum and immigration politics are very divergent. They're economic migrants, same as the other 10 million who've illegally entered the EU in the past decade. Stop conflating them with asylum seekers. Conflation is a Marxist technique: in the UK, one official deliberately conflates economic migrants with surgeons, "Some of them might be surgeons. Why wouldn't we want surgeons? What's wrong with you?", despite less than 0.01% being surgeons.
  - dumdumdumdum 5y ago
    Must have missed conflation in Capital. Is it like inflation?

by rp1 5y ago

codezero 5y ago

Bureaucracies have a hard time fighting against asymmetrical warfare.

coolspot 5y ago

> How can they even consider a natural gas pipeline with Russia Germany closed all their nuclear stations. They need lots of energy for heating and industries. Russia can take whole Ukraine if it wants and Germany will still buy Russian gas.

break_the_bank 5y ago
I don't understand nations being anti-nuclear. Also, why would you take down nuclear without having a good substitute?
- nix23 5y ago
  >Also, why would you take down nuclear without having a good substitute? Germany has coal, it help to preserve workplaces and one has not todo/think much....climate is not so important there.
- rasz 5y ago
  Because this forces future German governments to keep buying Russian gas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schr%C3%B6der#Relationship_with_Gazprom_and_Rosneft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schr%C3%B6der#Relation... >In his first term, Schröder's government decided to phase out nuclear power >As Chancellor, Gerhard Schröder was a strong advocate of the Nord Stream pipeline project, which now supplies Russian gas directly to Germany >In 2016, Schröder switched to become manager of Nord Stream 2, an expansion of the original pipeline in which Gazprom is sole shareholder.[92] >In 2017, Russia nominated Schröder to also serve as an independent director of the board of its biggest oil producer Rosneft.
  - dmos62 5y ago
    That is some blatant corruption.
    - nix23 5y ago
      No, that's how germany and the eu works, work in the eu as privacy protection officer after that change to google. https://www.businessinsider.com/google-job-hires-raise-concerns-about-political-influence-in-europe-2016-6?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/google-job-hires-raise-conce...
- max002 5y ago
  Hmm... See: 1. Chernobyl 2. Fukushima Unless we speak molten salt i dont understand people whp would build new 'classical' reactors I dont
- inglor_cz 5y ago
  1. Emphasize all the negatives. 2. Minimize or outright deny all the positives. 3. Rinse and repeat for 40 years or so. Not that different from anti-vax.
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
  Fossil fuel energy being among the most powerful and corrupt industries on the planet, in the pocket of countless thousands of politicians and bureaucrats doesn't give any hints? They've caused countries to go to war, killed millions, and are still mostly exempt from paying for any externalities from their product that have been known for a century. Killing nuclear is a walk in the park.

nix23 5y ago

>The call for NATO to act just further embarrasses the EU Haha exactly what i was thinking, maybe ask china too if they can help ;) >How can they even consider a natural gas pipeline with Russia invading Ukraine less than 10 years ago and amassing nearly 100000 troops on the border today? But that's where you are wrong, russia cannot accept that the nato places it's rockets into Ukraine, the US=NATO pushed russia into those steps. And then those NeoNazis groups supported by europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party) And much more...like the buy'd snipers. The US and Europe play dirty games with russia and the ukraine.

inglor_cz 5y ago

This is an asylum/immigration crisis and EU is a group of countries whose views on asylum and immigration politics are very divergent. It is likely that the current model of (ab)using asylum laws to facilitate mass migration into the richest EU countries is unsustainable, but any viable reform of the status quo will still hit against the Scylla and Charybda of "we do not want any more third-worlders of unclear identity here" (basically the Polish or Danish position) vs. "it is our duty to seriously process and examine every single asylum application even if we cannot return rejected applicants to their countries of origin" (the German position).

chewz 5y ago
If these people were legitimate asylum seekers they could have applied for asylum at every border crossing to Poland. It seems these people realize they have zero chance of obtaining asylum in EU and are getting frustrated that after paying 7-10 thousand dollars per person to traffickers had been stuck at the border… Formally these people are arriving to Minsk on tourist visas. A bit of survival tourism in East European forrest isn’t something they have been expecting? Complain to the tourist office…
redis_mlc 5y ago
> This is an asylum/immigration crisis and EU is a group of countries whose views on asylum and immigration politics are very divergent. They're economic migrants, same as the other 10 million who've illegally entered the EU in the past decade. Stop conflating them with asylum seekers. Conflation is a Marxist technique: in the UK, one official deliberately conflates economic migrants with surgeons, "Some of them might be surgeons. Why wouldn't we want surgeons? What's wrong with you?", despite less than 0.01% being surgeons.
- dumdumdumdum 5y ago
  Must have missed conflation in Capital. Is it like inflation?