7 ms·

I don't have much data points to share. But I've been seeing responses to people working FB have been horrible since for a while now. It has been a common tren

by Gentil 5y ago

I don't have much data points to share. But I've been seeing responses to people working FB have been horrible since for a while now. It has been a common trend that when someone I know posts a job position in FB, nobody replies to it. At least not publicly (publicly means replying to tweet, replying to slack message in a well knit/known group of people). Even if they are replying personally and privately, that in itself shows a problem. When I see someone working in FB, I can't deny that I am judging them. At this point, there is no reason to give a benefit of the doubt to how bad FB is to people, democracy and humanity in general. Sure, you can argue with technical meritocracy of some tech they produce. But how long can you sell yourself that excuse really when on the other side, adverse effects are mounting up? As nerdy and smart as tech workers are, we are still in need of validation from others right? There definitely should be some effect on people being perceived as a bad person for working for a bad company even if it is paying a ton. FAANG engineers should be more than equipped to look elsewhere because of it.

_fat_santa 5y ago
Facebook's biggest problem in the next few years is going to be that it will struggle to attract new talent. Simply put if you're a senior SWE, even the possibility of FB putting a stain on your resume is going to drive you away, because there are so many other options out there. It's not worth the risk of always having to explain your time there because everyone has an opinion on the company these days. It's not that Facebook isn't a great place to work, it probably is. It's the fact that if you're at the level where you can get hired by Facebook, there are many many other options to reach for and the vast majority of people at that level are just going to reach for those other companies that are just as prestigious but carry none of the stigma.
- fallingknife 5y ago
  On the other hand, I would personally find some sanctimonious interviewer asking me to defend my previous employment history from a perceived position of moral superiority a great screening tool for companies I would never want to work for.
  - shric 5y ago
    Is it really a screening tool for the company? It more likely just says something about that particular interviewer. It's not like a company has a policy of telling interviewers to scrutinize past job appointments. That can be done by the recruiter if desired.
  - squiffsquiff 5y ago
    So I'm an engineer at my org. I'd never want to work for Facebook. If I'm interviewing you then yes I will ask you why you chose to work there when by definition you had other options.
    - Infinitesimus 5y ago
      Do you expect to have to justify your employment history for the rest of your life? Can you imagine some reasons why someone would work for FB that have no value judgment besides being different from your view of the world? There seem to be a few assumptions you're making in the post above about someone you've never met and only know based on their current/former employer.
    - danrocks 5y ago
      If you are asking that question, you already expect a certain answer to fit your beliefs and values. Therefore you are already biased and belong nowhere near a fair interviewing process.
    - schmookeeg 5y ago
      As someone who worked for Blizzard 20 years ago, and is already cooking up "excuses" to offer interviewers like you... I hope your candidate in this example is able to part the conference room blinds, and point out his better-than-yours car, house, or helicopter that he took to your job site. And then just drop a microphone on the way to the next interview. :)
  - monocasa 5y ago
    If it's a moral issue with a company you've worked for, you won't get the chance to defend yourself in front of a sanctimonious interviewer; you'll get screened before that point.
- Gentil 5y ago
  This is a huge possibility. They are already struggling. The reality is I don't see Zuck backtracking on anything. Meta and the new tech coming around it is a good example of it. They are actually looking into doubling down on surveillance and being invasive.So them struggling should be a good point. Or a good thinng IMHO. They could use AI to tackle this in the future now that we have Copilot of the sorts. It would be interesting to see how the cope up with it.
- AtlasBarfed 5y ago
  Facebook may be a dying company, slowly slowly slowly on the IBM timescale. Facebook is definitely on the downslide. They staved off facebook's slide by successfully picking the next social network in instagram, but now that is probably going to lose its shine. If Tiktok is the next #1... That can't be easily acquired due to Chinese ownership... They'll try the "metaverse" but man that is a big leap, and they are already poisoning their metaverse with stupid things like "must have a facebook account" which signals they are doomed to failure. Facebook knows this. It's why they changed their name. Maybe the recruiting struggles signaled the death of the "Facebook" brand.
  - rajup 5y ago
    I'm sorry to break your fantasy, but FB is nowhere close to dying like IBM by pretty much any metric you can choose (apart from perception by random folks on the internet which frankly does not count for much).
  - loeg 5y ago
    $FB is up like 30% YTD? So by any reasonable standard on any reasonable timeframe, the smart money says it isn’t “dying.”
tjs8rj 5y ago
Twitter is just as dangerous as Facebook as far as I can tell. So much outrage that’s spilled into riots and bloodshed has been fomented on there in broad daylight with little repercussion. Do you judge people who work at Twitter too?
- dgfitz 5y ago
  Yup. I also judge people who use Twitter but I doubt that will go over well here.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    Not everyone who uses Twitter uses it to connect to extreme political personalities. Plenty use it to keep connected to smart people in tech and elsewhere.
- pmlnr 5y ago
  Twitter is not The Internet for a massive population of the globe; facebook is. If you doubt this, keep it in mind that "internet.org" redirects to FB.
sershe 5y ago
Anecdotally, just last week I've seen someone I know on senior (IC) level actually amplify their transition to Facebook on LinkedIn ("so happy to have worked in X, so happy to join Y, blah blah"), and another former coworker messaged me about their team in FB that they joined in the past year. Also I get much more Amazon/Google/random startup recruiting than FB, so they don't seem desperate. I had a couple friends who joined FB 5-7 years ago and reported horrible WLB, so I was avoiding it, but if the trend you are describing is correct (and that person from last week claimed WLB was fine), maybe I should consider it some day. I think there's nothing really wrong with the company, and I would view a somewhat lower level of "caring about social issues"/"wokeness" per-employee to be a small positive :)
- nowherebeen 5y ago
  > amplify their transition to Facebook on LinkedIn That’s just humble bragging on LinkedIn. It’s so common on that platform to humble brag everything that I wouldn’t read too much into that one.
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> But I've been seeing responses to people working FB have been horrible since for a while now. This might be more indicative of your bubble than anything. Facebook isn’t having a hard time hiring, despite whatever the headlines are trying to imply. There will always be a steady stream of applicants for high paying FAANG jobs. Being able to choose exactly which ultra-high-paying tech job you take or being able to walk away from one of those highly paid jobs is a massive privilege that not everybody shares.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- rajup 5y ago
  Exactly this. It is fascinating to see this bubble on HN, when on the outside I know there are tons of friends and acquaintances who are happy to get a call from recruiters, happy to land a job and happy to work there.
  - tubby12345 5y ago
    The name of this bubble is salty delusion/denial - hn is exactly where you would find people that have tried to get hired at FB and have failed.
    - piva00 5y ago
      HN is exactly where you would find both types of people: the ones who got hired as the one who failed. Not sure why you tried to take a jab with the community here that way, sounds pretty salty for an unknown reason.
- ramimac 5y ago
  Curious if you'd contradict recent coverage corroborating reports that FB isn't hitting hiring targets? https://www.protocol.com/workplace/facebook-docs-hiring-recruiting-crisis https://www.protocol.com/workplace/facebook-docs-hiring-recr...
throwawaythekey 5y ago
FB might have some negatives to society as a whole but there are also some positives (besides being able to talk to your family). The ad product has enabled a whole new generation of entrepreneurs. I really can't understate how pivotal facebook has been -> because they know so much about you the targeting can be REALLY REALLY effective. For many products the traditional competitors like google can't even come close. Being an e-commercialist+advertiser may make me biased but I've grown to love Zuck much more than I would've previously been comfortable with.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

by Gentil 5y ago

_fat_santa 5y ago

Facebook's biggest problem in the next few years is going to be that it will struggle to attract new talent. Simply put if you're a senior SWE, even the possibility of FB putting a stain on your resume is going to drive you away, because there are so many other options out there. It's not worth the risk of always having to explain your time there because everyone has an opinion on the company these days. It's not that Facebook isn't a great place to work, it probably is. It's the fact that if you're at the level where you can get hired by Facebook, there are many many other options to reach for and the vast majority of people at that level are just going to reach for those other companies that are just as prestigious but carry none of the stigma.

fallingknife 5y ago
On the other hand, I would personally find some sanctimonious interviewer asking me to defend my previous employment history from a perceived position of moral superiority a great screening tool for companies I would never want to work for.
- shric 5y ago
  Is it really a screening tool for the company? It more likely just says something about that particular interviewer. It's not like a company has a policy of telling interviewers to scrutinize past job appointments. That can be done by the recruiter if desired.
- squiffsquiff 5y ago
  So I'm an engineer at my org. I'd never want to work for Facebook. If I'm interviewing you then yes I will ask you why you chose to work there when by definition you had other options.
  - Infinitesimus 5y ago
    Do you expect to have to justify your employment history for the rest of your life? Can you imagine some reasons why someone would work for FB that have no value judgment besides being different from your view of the world? There seem to be a few assumptions you're making in the post above about someone you've never met and only know based on their current/former employer.
  - danrocks 5y ago
    If you are asking that question, you already expect a certain answer to fit your beliefs and values. Therefore you are already biased and belong nowhere near a fair interviewing process.
  - schmookeeg 5y ago
    As someone who worked for Blizzard 20 years ago, and is already cooking up "excuses" to offer interviewers like you... I hope your candidate in this example is able to part the conference room blinds, and point out his better-than-yours car, house, or helicopter that he took to your job site. And then just drop a microphone on the way to the next interview. :)
- monocasa 5y ago
  If it's a moral issue with a company you've worked for, you won't get the chance to defend yourself in front of a sanctimonious interviewer; you'll get screened before that point.
Gentil 5y ago
This is a huge possibility. They are already struggling. The reality is I don't see Zuck backtracking on anything. Meta and the new tech coming around it is a good example of it. They are actually looking into doubling down on surveillance and being invasive.So them struggling should be a good point. Or a good thinng IMHO. They could use AI to tackle this in the future now that we have Copilot of the sorts. It would be interesting to see how the cope up with it.
AtlasBarfed 5y ago
Facebook may be a dying company, slowly slowly slowly on the IBM timescale. Facebook is definitely on the downslide. They staved off facebook's slide by successfully picking the next social network in instagram, but now that is probably going to lose its shine. If Tiktok is the next #1... That can't be easily acquired due to Chinese ownership... They'll try the "metaverse" but man that is a big leap, and they are already poisoning their metaverse with stupid things like "must have a facebook account" which signals they are doomed to failure. Facebook knows this. It's why they changed their name. Maybe the recruiting struggles signaled the death of the "Facebook" brand.
- rajup 5y ago
  I'm sorry to break your fantasy, but FB is nowhere close to dying like IBM by pretty much any metric you can choose (apart from perception by random folks on the internet which frankly does not count for much).
- loeg 5y ago
  $FB is up like 30% YTD? So by any reasonable standard on any reasonable timeframe, the smart money says it isn’t “dying.”

tjs8rj 5y ago

Twitter is just as dangerous as Facebook as far as I can tell. So much outrage that’s spilled into riots and bloodshed has been fomented on there in broad daylight with little repercussion. Do you judge people who work at Twitter too?

dgfitz 5y ago
Yup. I also judge people who use Twitter but I doubt that will go over well here.
- ghaff 5y ago
  Not everyone who uses Twitter uses it to connect to extreme political personalities. Plenty use it to keep connected to smart people in tech and elsewhere.
pmlnr 5y ago
Twitter is not The Internet for a massive population of the globe; facebook is. If you doubt this, keep it in mind that "internet.org" redirects to FB.

sershe 5y ago

Anecdotally, just last week I've seen someone I know on senior (IC) level actually amplify their transition to Facebook on LinkedIn ("so happy to have worked in X, so happy to join Y, blah blah"), and another former coworker messaged me about their team in FB that they joined in the past year. Also I get much more Amazon/Google/random startup recruiting than FB, so they don't seem desperate. I had a couple friends who joined FB 5-7 years ago and reported horrible WLB, so I was avoiding it, but if the trend you are describing is correct (and that person from last week claimed WLB was fine), maybe I should consider it some day. I think there's nothing really wrong with the company, and I would view a somewhat lower level of "caring about social issues"/"wokeness" per-employee to be a small positive :)

nowherebeen 5y ago
> amplify their transition to Facebook on LinkedIn That’s just humble bragging on LinkedIn. It’s so common on that platform to humble brag everything that I wouldn’t read too much into that one.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

> But I've been seeing responses to people working FB have been horrible since for a while now. This might be more indicative of your bubble than anything. Facebook isn’t having a hard time hiring, despite whatever the headlines are trying to imply. There will always be a steady stream of applicants for high paying FAANG jobs. Being able to choose exactly which ultra-high-paying tech job you take or being able to walk away from one of those highly paid jobs is a massive privilege that not everybody shares.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
rajup 5y ago
Exactly this. It is fascinating to see this bubble on HN, when on the outside I know there are tons of friends and acquaintances who are happy to get a call from recruiters, happy to land a job and happy to work there.
- tubby12345 5y ago
  The name of this bubble is salty delusion/denial - hn is exactly where you would find people that have tried to get hired at FB and have failed.
  - piva00 5y ago
    HN is exactly where you would find both types of people: the ones who got hired as the one who failed. Not sure why you tried to take a jab with the community here that way, sounds pretty salty for an unknown reason.
ramimac 5y ago
Curious if you'd contradict recent coverage corroborating reports that FB isn't hitting hiring targets? https://www.protocol.com/workplace/facebook-docs-hiring-recruiting-crisis https://www.protocol.com/workplace/facebook-docs-hiring-recr...

throwawaythekey 5y ago

FB might have some negatives to society as a whole but there are also some positives (besides being able to talk to your family). The ad product has enabled a whole new generation of entrepreneurs. I really can't understate how pivotal facebook has been -> because they know so much about you the targeting can be REALLY REALLY effective. For many products the traditional competitors like google can't even come close. Being an e-commercialist+advertiser may make me biased but I've grown to love Zuck much more than I would've previously been comfortable with.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]