4 ms·

If right-to-repair and ease of maintenance are such huge issues for farmers, why doesn't some up-and-coming manufacturer fill this niche?

Osiris 5y ago
1. Capital requirements 2. Patents
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- dehrmann 5y ago
  If people are buying up used tractors, I'd be surprised they'd be that disappointed with 20-year-old (i.e., all patents have expired) tractor tech.
structural 5y ago
They do! They make parts for old tractors (really, old tractor chassis once everything else has been replaced a few times). As far as why doesn't a new tractor manufacturer start up, they have to compete with a few things: first, the market for old tractors and parts (if they are repairable basically forever and the amount of land used by agriculture isn't changing, this is not a growth market). Worse, it's much more difficult to design a small engine for sale that is both reliable and will pass current environmental regulations. This is a major barrier to entry that didn't exist decades ago. So if you're a startup in the ag space, it makes eminently more sense to make small parts for someone else's platform, which is why you see companies doing things like deploying GPS, cameras, lidar, datalogging systems. There, the market opportunity is "all tractors could benefit from this", the competition is initially "other small companies", the exit strategy is "get purchased by a large manufacturer who would rather buy than develop the tech themselves", and the regulatory environment is much more friendly.
- R0b0t1 5y ago
  Does farm equipment need to pass environmental regulations? I didn't think it did. If it does I doubt there will ever be a startup in this area.
  - mschuster91 5y ago
    Most farm equipment will be driven on roads, so yes, it will have to comply with emission regulations.
    - R0b0t1 5y ago
      That's neither necessary or sufficient -- farm equipment is given passes for most car requirements and I know does not strictly meet existing EPA regs, but I am unsure if it has absolutely no regs or not.
  - throwaway9870 5y ago
    Yes, look up tier 4 diesel regulations. They have had a significant impact on the industry.
  - bluGill 5y ago
    Depends on where you live. In the US farm equipment needs to pass tier 4 laws (as others have said ). Other countries have different laws. (I think tier 4 covers Europe, there has been a push to unify though that.isn't always successful)
    - R0b0t1 5y ago
      Do you have an actual citation for this? Because as I remember there are cutouts, like if you make your own car. A workaround may be selling it as a kit. If it's a kit and not intended for road use you could probably sell whatever you want, similar to selling radio kits that are illegal to assemble. This doesn't mean it runs dirty, it just didn't pass inspection. I'm not really a fan of skirting all EPA regulations, but passing them is a huge ordeal and probably not something a startup could do without lots of VC that would tell them to just emulate John Deere. It also covers exactly one engine setup.
- webmaven 5y ago
  > Worse, it's much more difficult to design a small engine for sale that is both reliable and will pass current environmental regulations. This is a major barrier to entry that didn't exist decades ago. Do all the major farm equipment manufacturers design and build their own engines?
  - throwaway9870 5y ago
    No. Modern engines with Tier IV compliance are very expensive and it is hard for even large companies to develop, tool and manufacture a wide variety of engines required by diverse product lines.
    - webmaven 5y ago
      Okay, that means the barrier to entry doesn't really exist.
bsder 5y ago
For the same reason that selling to musicians or teachers isn't a great idea, your clientele are poor.
dehrmann 5y ago
I'd think some second-tier manufacturers would see these bidding wars as an opportunity to do just that.

Osiris 5y ago

1. Capital requirements 2. Patents

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
dehrmann 5y ago
If people are buying up used tractors, I'd be surprised they'd be that disappointed with 20-year-old (i.e., all patents have expired) tractor tech.

structural 5y ago

They do! They make parts for old tractors (really, old tractor chassis once everything else has been replaced a few times). As far as why doesn't a new tractor manufacturer start up, they have to compete with a few things: first, the market for old tractors and parts (if they are repairable basically forever and the amount of land used by agriculture isn't changing, this is not a growth market). Worse, it's much more difficult to design a small engine for sale that is both reliable and will pass current environmental regulations. This is a major barrier to entry that didn't exist decades ago. So if you're a startup in the ag space, it makes eminently more sense to make small parts for someone else's platform, which is why you see companies doing things like deploying GPS, cameras, lidar, datalogging systems. There, the market opportunity is "all tractors could benefit from this", the competition is initially "other small companies", the exit strategy is "get purchased by a large manufacturer who would rather buy than develop the tech themselves", and the regulatory environment is much more friendly.

R0b0t1 5y ago
Does farm equipment need to pass environmental regulations? I didn't think it did. If it does I doubt there will ever be a startup in this area.
- mschuster91 5y ago
  Most farm equipment will be driven on roads, so yes, it will have to comply with emission regulations.
  - R0b0t1 5y ago
    That's neither necessary or sufficient -- farm equipment is given passes for most car requirements and I know does not strictly meet existing EPA regs, but I am unsure if it has absolutely no regs or not.
- throwaway9870 5y ago
  Yes, look up tier 4 diesel regulations. They have had a significant impact on the industry.
- bluGill 5y ago
  Depends on where you live. In the US farm equipment needs to pass tier 4 laws (as others have said ). Other countries have different laws. (I think tier 4 covers Europe, there has been a push to unify though that.isn't always successful)
  - R0b0t1 5y ago
    Do you have an actual citation for this? Because as I remember there are cutouts, like if you make your own car. A workaround may be selling it as a kit. If it's a kit and not intended for road use you could probably sell whatever you want, similar to selling radio kits that are illegal to assemble. This doesn't mean it runs dirty, it just didn't pass inspection. I'm not really a fan of skirting all EPA regulations, but passing them is a huge ordeal and probably not something a startup could do without lots of VC that would tell them to just emulate John Deere. It also covers exactly one engine setup.
webmaven 5y ago
> Worse, it's much more difficult to design a small engine for sale that is both reliable and will pass current environmental regulations. This is a major barrier to entry that didn't exist decades ago. Do all the major farm equipment manufacturers design and build their own engines?
- throwaway9870 5y ago
  No. Modern engines with Tier IV compliance are very expensive and it is hard for even large companies to develop, tool and manufacture a wide variety of engines required by diverse product lines.
  - webmaven 5y ago
    Okay, that means the barrier to entry doesn't really exist.

bsder 5y ago

For the same reason that selling to musicians or teachers isn't a great idea, your clientele are poor.

dehrmann 5y ago

I'd think some second-tier manufacturers would see these bidding wars as an opportunity to do just that.