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I find this quite concerning. A substantial amount of folks suffering with depression have situational depression, e.g. depression from living (for them) and u

I find this quite concerning. A substantial amount of folks suffering with depression have situational depression, e.g. depression from living (for them) and unfulfilled life, relationship problems, stress, substance abuse etc. I can see a 20 minute fix with no effort to address the root cause, just creating more issues.

jhanschoo 5y ago
It's not like traditional psychiatric drugs address the root cause in such depression either.
danielscrubs 5y ago
One of the worst things with depression is that might be in a negative spiral until a person becomes totally apathetic. Breaking that negative spiral and instead putting a person in a positive spiral (going to the gym becomes more fun, socialising becomes more fun, removing the need for a big amount of willpower) is essential to living a fulfilled life. An empathic doctor will know when it is time to wean the person away from it. I've seen my brother waste his life completely, becoming a shut in, he has never hurt a fly but he has zero confidence and absolutely zero optimism even though he was in the top 2% in our version of SAT, which made him be able to pick any university he wanted, but having no optimism, he didn't go to school. He is nearly 50 now and the family (including me) has basically given up on him having a job or a girlfriend, or a bunch of friends for that matter (he is very kind but a pessimist, you are not going to hear him cracking a joke). For most people, they can't even phantom being able to get that high score and not choosing to study/work, because they haven't been apathetic. Medicine (subscribed by specialists) are the cheat code of life, done sparingly and well. Just look at the amount of people who changed their life with ADHD medication saying they couldn't even have energy for mowing the lawn before taking it. From what I've seen, I just can barely see anything riskier than a life of depression.
- 567745774 5y ago
  The way you've used your own brother as a rhetorical bludgeon here is quite telling. Do you think your choice to disrespect his privacy might play a role in your relationship?
scotty79 5y ago
I personally believe that source of depression is purely physical. Some physical factor affects the mood and it affects behavior that may further degrade physical condition that progresses the depression. So the root cause is not the way people live, or percive their world but some defect in their brains and you always need to start with that. Improving behavior comes next. Same way that walks might help your broken leg heal, but only after you properly put in together and secured with some screws and plates and a cast. People thought stomach ulcers were caused by stress and lifestyle until they discovered it's actually helicobacter pylori. So before that people advocated that if you have ulcers you should improve your life to stress less. Which ultimately had very limited effect because no matter how little you stressed and how well you ate you were still infected with the bacteria. And the solution turned out to be just the right antibiotic which looked like cheating because people didn't improved their lifestyle just took some pills, got rid of ulcers and still mostly lead the same "wrong" lives.
- pitspotter2 5y ago
  Another explanation for depression I've heard from Mark Solms. Or partial explanation. He thinks it may be a dysfunctional or pathologised form of mourning. There are two relevant emotional needs which all mammals possess: 1. Seeking. This is ongoing energetic and curious engagement with the world. 2. Attachment. The need for connection with others, especially to parents. These two rarely come into conflict but when they do system 1 may be switched off. e.g. A rat pup is separated from its mother and becomes anxious. It commences to squeak for a brief period in order to attract her attention. It then goes quiet; its brain switches off seeking. It experiences mourning and despair. The evolutionary rationale for this built-in mechanism is to prevent vulnerable infants from attracting predators. Obviously humans are more complicated. Perhaps the same shutdown process is triggered in response to the breaking of other kinds of attachment, e.g. attachment to ideas about what to do.
GordonS 5y ago
I think you're right that "situational depression" is a thing, probably moreso than ever with the way we live nowadays. I think it's also worth noting that some people appear to "have it all" (and would even claim so themselves), but can still be depressed - situationally, things are great, but feelings of depression persist.
odonnellryan 5y ago
The issue with depression is it often makes it impossible to address the root concerns. It is almost like a catch-22 in a lot of ways, and it is why it is such an awful thing.
musicale 5y ago
> no effort to address the root cause This is the sort of thing that bothered me about some "stress management" approaches that seemed to be largely about treating the symptoms of stress while ignoring the root causes. For example, were you to ask university students about what would relieve their stress, they might provide concrete suggestions like more flexible grading policies, better teaching, advising and mentoring, less punitive discipline, better housing options, better food, lower fees, etc., but university mental health staff generally have zero power to put any of these suggestions into practice, and such changes are generally opposed by the faculty and administration. Much of the stress experienced by students is directly caused and incentivized by the university, yet somehow counselors are supposed to fix it? The root causes of stress for the population at large might include the many horrors and dangers of modern life. Problems such as horrible work, horrible school, lack of affordable housing/health care/education, constant financial insecurity, stifling and isolating social environment, lack of opportunity, lack of purpose, existential dread, mortality, political and social strife, environmental pollution, impending doom from global warming, pandemics, wars, etc.) are often very hard (if not impossible) to change, so perhaps just trying to treat the symptoms makes sense.

jhanschoo 5y ago

It's not like traditional psychiatric drugs address the root cause in such depression either.

danielscrubs 5y ago

One of the worst things with depression is that might be in a negative spiral until a person becomes totally apathetic. Breaking that negative spiral and instead putting a person in a positive spiral (going to the gym becomes more fun, socialising becomes more fun, removing the need for a big amount of willpower) is essential to living a fulfilled life. An empathic doctor will know when it is time to wean the person away from it. I've seen my brother waste his life completely, becoming a shut in, he has never hurt a fly but he has zero confidence and absolutely zero optimism even though he was in the top 2% in our version of SAT, which made him be able to pick any university he wanted, but having no optimism, he didn't go to school. He is nearly 50 now and the family (including me) has basically given up on him having a job or a girlfriend, or a bunch of friends for that matter (he is very kind but a pessimist, you are not going to hear him cracking a joke). For most people, they can't even phantom being able to get that high score and not choosing to study/work, because they haven't been apathetic. Medicine (subscribed by specialists) are the cheat code of life, done sparingly and well. Just look at the amount of people who changed their life with ADHD medication saying they couldn't even have energy for mowing the lawn before taking it. From what I've seen, I just can barely see anything riskier than a life of depression.

567745774 5y ago
The way you've used your own brother as a rhetorical bludgeon here is quite telling. Do you think your choice to disrespect his privacy might play a role in your relationship?

scotty79 5y ago

I personally believe that source of depression is purely physical. Some physical factor affects the mood and it affects behavior that may further degrade physical condition that progresses the depression. So the root cause is not the way people live, or percive their world but some defect in their brains and you always need to start with that. Improving behavior comes next. Same way that walks might help your broken leg heal, but only after you properly put in together and secured with some screws and plates and a cast. People thought stomach ulcers were caused by stress and lifestyle until they discovered it's actually helicobacter pylori. So before that people advocated that if you have ulcers you should improve your life to stress less. Which ultimately had very limited effect because no matter how little you stressed and how well you ate you were still infected with the bacteria. And the solution turned out to be just the right antibiotic which looked like cheating because people didn't improved their lifestyle just took some pills, got rid of ulcers and still mostly lead the same "wrong" lives.

pitspotter2 5y ago
Another explanation for depression I've heard from Mark Solms. Or partial explanation. He thinks it may be a dysfunctional or pathologised form of mourning. There are two relevant emotional needs which all mammals possess: 1. Seeking. This is ongoing energetic and curious engagement with the world. 2. Attachment. The need for connection with others, especially to parents. These two rarely come into conflict but when they do system 1 may be switched off. e.g. A rat pup is separated from its mother and becomes anxious. It commences to squeak for a brief period in order to attract her attention. It then goes quiet; its brain switches off seeking. It experiences mourning and despair. The evolutionary rationale for this built-in mechanism is to prevent vulnerable infants from attracting predators. Obviously humans are more complicated. Perhaps the same shutdown process is triggered in response to the breaking of other kinds of attachment, e.g. attachment to ideas about what to do.

GordonS 5y ago

I think you're right that "situational depression" is a thing, probably moreso than ever with the way we live nowadays. I think it's also worth noting that some people appear to "have it all" (and would even claim so themselves), but can still be depressed - situationally, things are great, but feelings of depression persist.

odonnellryan 5y ago

The issue with depression is it often makes it impossible to address the root concerns. It is almost like a catch-22 in a lot of ways, and it is why it is such an awful thing.

musicale 5y ago

> no effort to address the root cause This is the sort of thing that bothered me about some "stress management" approaches that seemed to be largely about treating the symptoms of stress while ignoring the root causes. For example, were you to ask university students about what would relieve their stress, they might provide concrete suggestions like more flexible grading policies, better teaching, advising and mentoring, less punitive discipline, better housing options, better food, lower fees, etc., but university mental health staff generally have zero power to put any of these suggestions into practice, and such changes are generally opposed by the faculty and administration. Much of the stress experienced by students is directly caused and incentivized by the university, yet somehow counselors are supposed to fix it? The root causes of stress for the population at large might include the many horrors and dangers of modern life. Problems such as horrible work, horrible school, lack of affordable housing/health care/education, constant financial insecurity, stifling and isolating social environment, lack of opportunity, lack of purpose, existential dread, mortality, political and social strife, environmental pollution, impending doom from global warming, pandemics, wars, etc.) are often very hard (if not impossible) to change, so perhaps just trying to treat the symptoms makes sense.